To get DDs christened and not tell dad?

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We've been split since DD twins were babies. They're now 7. They see their dad twice a year and he lives hundreds of miles away. He is staunchly atheist and would never agree to a christening.
I've had a baby with my partner (been together for years) and we'd like to get all the kids christened together. DDs do a lot of religious education at school and would be keen.
Basically if I ask for exH permission, he'd definately say no. But frankly- he puts so little effort in (contact maybe once a month on skype between visits) that I'm inclined to do it anyway, even though I know it would be against his wishes. I know I'm probably BU (and ironically that this doesn't feel like a very 'Christian' thing to do!) But I'd really like to do it.

we are not regular church goers - but mainly because life with a full house gets in the way of going

Not if you are wanting to go it doesn't. It's just an excuse.

if he's an atheist, he won't feel like it has any meaning so why would he care?

Er because his children are being taught that it does. How would you feel if someone started telling your children they are special because they have a secret mark given by the pubah of the moon.

Or something else you believe to not be true?

I wanted a church wedding with ex and was point blank refused. he has always made it very clear that he was not only an atheist, but also very anti religion

So you knew this was part of the deal. You knew before having children with him and you still had them. You know this will go against his belief system.

Are you in fact orchestrating this because you think he will break contact over it?

I guess if you're already occasional churchgoers and allow attendance at RE then you've already gone over that line about religious decisions.

CountessOfStrathearn I really think only the OP, knows how hectic her own life is. Just because others go to church with more kids.

Ellisandra if the church doesn't judge people who do not regularly go but wish their babies baptised, what right have we to judge the OP on her church attendance?

"So you knew this was part of the deal. You knew before having children with him and you still had them. You know this will go against his belief system."

Presumably he knew that she was 'religious' in some way too! Yet he still chose to marry her, and have kids, and tootle off 100s of miles away and leave her to raise the kids. This is an incredible double standard, the man rules the home even when he is not in it!

Dutch what line?

NewNNfor2017 I wonder what an atheist thinks is happening at a baptism.

So are you saying that it is all a staged performance, and that the commitments and promises made are just a script, not actually meant in any way?

Its laughable that a pp thinks it's appalling that a man who sees his children twice a year should have any say in the matter.

Whats appalling is his parenting and approach to being a father.

Religious arguments aside...do not give him a second thought op. Do it if you want to.

What I'd like to know is how involved you are with your local church? Do you want your children baptised as part of an ongoing relationship with a church and a faith that will be part of your daily lives? If not, then getting your twins "done" is the grossest of hypocrisy, whether or not you tell their father. (Incidentally, I say this as a communicant Anglican)

Apologies, I thought I had RTFT but I hadn't seen your latest post. But really, if "family life" stops you going to church on almost every Sunday, why is it so important to you to have your children baptised? Baptism is to welcome them into a Christian community, but to be part of a community you have to, you know, be part of that community. Just pleasing your parents isn't actually a good enough reason to do it.

I expect if you discuss it with the vicar, he/she will have some good ideas of ways to include your dcs in the christening of baby and make it something special for them too, even if they / you choose not to go for actual baptism for them. Eg a blessing or special promises as big sisters. If you and they do decide to go ahead, you could just write to your ex informing him of it rather than asking permission.
Personally, I think 7 is an awkward age for this. Too old for it to be entirely your choice and too young to be able to make an informed decision themselves.

Having seen the update I think this isn't unreasonable as a path. Not all Christians get to church regularly and the OP considers herself to be Christian. Fundamentally it remains for the children themselves to choose this (and perhaps one might say yes and the other say no) but the OP isn't doing this for a school place or to create an excuse for a party, so go for it.

NewNNfor2017 "So are you saying that it is all a staged performance, and that the commitments and promises made are just a script, not actually meant in any way?"

I am a bit confused, are you now asking me what I think is happening at a baptism?

I am asking what it means to an atheist to know that a bunch of people who believe (passionately or half-heartedly in something) that atheist knows to be untrue. I am not saying they should be happy about it, I am asking what they think of it.

I am happy to tell you what i think but I am trying to work out what it means to an atheist.

I guess if I can take an alternative track, if it were a religion different to mine, I would be concerned, because I would consider mine to be true, so I do understand that an atheist, who believes there is no God, would find making promises to such a God, strange and undesirable. The children themselves do not make a promise in infant baptism. So his children would not be making any promises to God. The adults make promises.

And the role of a God parent is not really massively onerous.

Our children's God parents have:
prayed for them
looked after them
bought them gifts
sent them cards
and most were there at the dedication

The plan for us is that when they are older they will have adult,s we and they, know who share our faith and if they wish to speak to adults they can. But they may speak to any other adults once they are adults and the children of these people (about 14 in total, so far) are also family friends.
It is a kind of extended network of friends.

With the exception of the first one above I am not sure that there are any other items that all God parents have done. One did not even make it to the service of dedication - due to ill health.

I guess I am saying this because I don't think God parents in general will have a massive educational influence in their God children's lives and my sister is in our will to care for the kids if we both die, so God parents won't 'take' over.

Their father sounds horrifying and YANBU to ignore him. If this is something you and the girls want then he is irrelevant I think.

Having said that, I would think about whether you want your children to get feelings of reassurance, love or worth from Christianity or any other religion. I definitely would not want to encourage that in a child. There are more genuine and honest ways to give them those feelings, and ones that will not hamper their intellectual and moral development in the same way.

I did it, although slightly different circumstances.
I had 3 children, all Baptised, met my now ex. His family were of a different religion and very much against mine. My ex was very much under his parents thumb.
When dd was born I wanted her baptised, ex forbade it.
When we split one of the first things I did was to get dd Baptised. When ex found out all he said was he wished he had been able to go and asked for some photos.
I knew deep down he had no personal objections, he just didn't want to go against his parents.
Ex is now fully involved in dds religious life, attending Communion and Confirmation very willingly.

ask your dd's. I had made the decision to leave it up to my kids to decide when they were old enough, last year my DC were baptised in my DSM church without my knowledge while they were staying with her. My dd who is 9 did not want to be baptised and as a fallout from this my DSM has no contact with my DC and I am going through family court ATM and psychologists have recommended to the court that DSM have no contact with my youngest DC (she lives next door to my ex) due to her overstepping boundaries. Sorry I am rambling.
As a parent it is your choice but talk to your DD's and see what they want.

you say they have been taught religion in school. What variety of religion? There are many and I believe its a personal choice. I would say they are too young to make that decision. They have come this far without it. In what way would it make a positive difference to their lives that is currently missing if you went ahead with your plans?

user1468539146 what a great ending.

harrypotternerd that is so sad.

I say definetly do it.

He takes such little interest in them. The OW is clearly more important to him hence he moved so far.

He can't give a damn when his DD is in hospital.

Go for it.

BTW .... I'm pleased they have a good step father.

The poster who says christening and baptism differ are wrong.

I don't think ion this case that the mother has a moral right to ask for the fathers permission, although legally she should inform him and he has the right to object and may well do so.

An apathetic atheist might not care but personally I would be beyond livid if my children were baptised or otherwise inducted in any faith. I think religion is really quite toxic and to me the vows made in a christening are pretty powerful. That they aren't backed up by any god is beyond the point really.

As someone brought up in a religious family I also think that people like the OP getting their children christened is really hypocritical as it will involve making strong vows they have no intention of keeping as they can't be bothered to practice the religion that they will be bringing their children to. The CoE will welcome them anyway because they are a)obliged to do so as part of being the established church and b)will hope that your family will be drawn into their faith.

Presumably he knew that she was 'religious' in some way too! Yet he still chose to marry her, and have kids, and tootle off 100s of miles away and leave her to raise the kids. This is an incredible double standard, the man rules the home even when he is not in it!

Not at all. People have discussions about things like which religion if any to raise their kids before they have them. Or they should.

If those discussions surrounded what is best for the child and why they want to do or not do something then separation should not change it because it should still be in the best interests of the child.

OP chose not to marry in church, for a lot of people that would be a deal breaker, or in the case of her es, marrying in church would be a deal breaker to others.

Italiangreyhound
Dutch what line?

A few posters had talked about how a non-resident parent has legal rights to participate in a child's religious (or not) upbringing. So when the OP said that the kids participate in RE and they have been to church it seems to me that the horse has already bolted on this, and the baptism is a moot point.