To get DDs christened and not tell dad?

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We've been split since DD twins were babies. They're now 7. They see their dad twice a year and he lives hundreds of miles away. He is staunchly atheist and would never agree to a christening.
I've had a baby with my partner (been together for years) and we'd like to get all the kids christened together. DDs do a lot of religious education at school and would be keen.
Basically if I ask for exH permission, he'd definately say no. But frankly- he puts so little effort in (contact maybe once a month on skype between visits) that I'm inclined to do it anyway, even though I know it would be against his wishes. I know I'm probably BU (and ironically that this doesn't feel like a very 'Christian' thing to do!) But I'd really like to do it.

Pluto "Imposing a religion on someone who has no choice in the matter is fundamentally wrong. No two ways about it."

Why? What you call imposing others would probably call 'bringing them up in the faith.

We all pass on our 'briefs' to our children.

Rather than a blanket ban on religion for children (like Communist China has/has); which in the west would be impossible to control or impose, I'd rather dangerous practices were eliminated. Baptism is not dangerous.

But the ceremony has no 'real power on his mind and denying his children this experience, of they choose it, is only more likely to drive them towards Christianity and away from him.

In this case the request for baptism doesn't seem to be driven by the children (please come back op!). It's the mum and her partner's wish for them.

It's a bit naive to expect people to be fine with their children taking part in religious activity if they don't believe in it. How would you feel if your children had been made to pray in school as part of a lesson? Or taken to a mosque where they all worshipped Allah together without your permission?

Personally I think that you should wait until your children are properly old enough to understand baptism/religion and let them make their own decision. But then I think that about all christenings tbh.

This is my personal belief as well. We go to church but our kids are not baptised. We had a dedication ceremony for them but that's not the same. It's basically when a blessing and prayers are said Over the whole family. As parents we ask for the support of the church in raising our family and they pray for us.

There's no water, no godparents and no promises. Would something like this be an option? It's less likely to be objectionable as it's not a strict ceremony where you get candles and certificates.

Our kids won't be baptised until they decide they want to be and we as parents are happy that it's their choice and they are doing it for the right reasons.

I am fairly sure he has a legal right to object. You need to look at why you are doing it as well. If you are regular church attendees look at the possibility of a blessing which has similar connotations for you as a parent but doesn't have the same weight as a christening. If you don't attend church why do you need to do it at all?

Re baptisms for schools. Where I am the only schools that ask for baptism certificates are the catholic schools. Catholic schools can be very good schools but should be considered very carefully as they do
In most cases force their very strict dogma onto the children.

My kids are in a c of e church school. Religion was irrelevant in the application process. Most of the kids aren't baptised and the religious aspect is broad.

He may be an 'absent' father but he still has a degree of rights and just because the kids do a lot of religion at school why do they need to be christened. Is actually for for them or is it for you to get 'one over' on their father

Helena can I just say I love that idea for what you did for your children in your church. I said earlier I'm not religious but I think that would be wonderful if all churches allowed it so each person decides when they're older

I said earlier I'm not religious but I think that would be wonderful if all churches allowed it so each person decides when they're older

It really isn't unusual.

Most of the welcome new baby ceremonies at our church are thanksgivings (which is what Helena's described) rather than christenings.

Your kids need to know df wouldn't be happy and ask their opinion. My ex had MY ds x2 baptised Catholic behind my back when there were 6+7and forbade them to tell me!! We had split up but he still saw them. They were distraught that I was so bloody furious about the whole thing. I wouldn't want your kids feeling they had done something to upset df and they think he was somehow mad at them. Maybe they could have a blessing at the same time as the sibling is Christened?

I would find it impossible to act out a sacrament whilst lying about it (and I am really no great advocate for the rights of absent or semi-absent fathers, fwiw).

But I'm not really clear from the OP whether this is intended to be a religious baptism or not.

To the broader question of baptism and consent - I was raised an atheist and baptised and confirmed as an adult. I don't begrudge my mother imposing her atheism onto me - partly because it was reversible. I won't be getting DS (4) or any future children baptised, either.

When I was 19 I had son, I came from a family that only went to Church for weddings etc and none of my family or friends would describe themselves as religious. Very few neighbours on my estate went to church weekly either.

But yet there was an assumption that I'd be having my baby christened, with it being a pressure almost. My mum arranged for the vicar to come out a month or my baby was born and he didn't ask a single question about the dad and because I just felt a unspoken pressure that it's a bad thing if I don't get my baby christened and because I'd only been out of hospital four weeks and was still recovering from a traumatic birth, all the bullshit about babies being in limbo made me think, I was protecting my baby, it's hard to explain but that's how I felt.

I'm a different person now at 36 and my dd isn't christened, I do wish that I'd not christened DS, his name is in records that can't be removed from, I didn't fully understand what I was agreeing to sign him to, I can't even remember that much of the christening as I was on so many meds and niw I'm older I'm kind if angry at myself for allowing myself to be pressured and pushed along with it. I was so scared something would happen to my baby.
DS is 17 and understands why I made the choice I did, but would rather not have his name on church records.

We moved from the tiny village to a small town when I met dh
, and while a load of people do have christeningsin churches that they never attend and would laugh if you said the child is now a Christian, there isn't this pressure I had when living at home. Nobody cares and nobody asks when the christening is etc etc. The only time I've been asked about baptism is on school forms, which makes me think Bertrand has it.

While the dad is an atheist and such ceremonies mean nothing to him, he may well be concerned about the power it has over his girls, about the people bringing them up reinforcing and pushing their beliefs on to him and there are some religious ceremonies that I think shouldn't happen unless both parents agree (although I'd rather non happened until the child was old enough) such as circumcision, but then as some other pps have described, being indictrined into a faith (which is what a baptism is) has had an impact on their lives too, so maybe we shouldn't initiate children into religions until they old enough to choose themselves, but even then there's no way of showing their belief isn't down to years and years of parents telling them what they have to believe.

OP if you're not religious, why not have a naming ceremony instead?

well - that;s a lot of responses in a seriously short space of time!

Ok - for those wanting more info:
He had an affair and moved hundreds of miles away to live with the OW.
I am christian, was christened as a baby and remember feeling very strongly reassured as a child by the christening candle i had on my shelf that said 'you are the light of the world' i remember very clearly getting it down regularly, looking at it and feeling loved - i'd love that experience for all the kids.
I wanted a church wedding with ex and was point blank refused. he has always made it very clear that he was not only an atheist, but also very anti religion.

(yes yes - i know, i should not have married or procreated with this man, but hindsight is 20/20).

anyway - the kids school is CoE but does not require christening to attend.
i would obviously discuss the specifics of christening with the kids before going ahead, it would be their decision, not something forced.
we are not regular church goers - but mainly because life with a full house gets in the way of going, rather than actively avoiding it. my parents go regularly and would be delighted to have the kids christened (which i know is not a reason to do it, but it would be a lovely by-product of making this decision.)
getting all the kids Christened is my idea and my partner is fully behind it (please don't assume he is some religions nut enforcing his beliefs on his step children!)

as for the involvement of my ex - as i have said he sees them twice a year. i often suggest more access and i am turned down. i have started to not bother as it upsets me that they are so obviously not wanted.

example - one of them was hospitalized for 3 days last year. step dad arrived within 15 minutes of getting my call from the hospital. Ex's response 'oh ok - well i'll try and call another day then' .
he had 3 days to travel down and see her - he chose not to bother.

i asked for his involvement in choosing schools - he left it entirely up to me.

i have tried and tried to involve him and he just doesn't care.

very willing to spend out on lots of toys/presents, but will not engage if it involves time rather than money.

i digress. - he will be absolutely anti this christening going ahead, but frankly, he is not seeing the girls now till August and they speak so rarely, it's highly unlikely he'll find out.

i doubt he would try court - it would be expensive and although he could afford it, we did our own divorce paperwork to save money.

i will however discuss it with the vicar and get his take on it. i would not want to be 'unchristian' while attempting to be more Christian!!

The father has parental responsibility yet he seems to shirk that, it's not all about rights.

I am christian, was christened as a baby and remember feeling very strongly reassured as a child by the christening candle i had on my shelf that said 'you are the light of the world' i remember very clearly getting it down regularly, looking at it and feeling loved - i'd love that experience for all the kids

But Christening your children won't automatically give them that reassurance or make them feel loved. You will give them that.

Wait until they're old enough to choose. My DC are Christened and I'm atheist.

It really bugs me and I wish I'd said no - I had no involvement with the planning of either Christening, DH did it all. I just turned up and held the DC.

Go ahead without telling him. Surely if he's atheist it's just a meaningless ceremony anyway? (I'm atheist.)

Did he object to them going to a CofE school? That would be a bigger deal to me than a one-off christening.

But Christening your children won't automatically give them that reassurance or make them feel loved. You will give them that.

I totally agree (and I am a Christian). You're lucky you're happy you were christened-many people aren't either because they have grown up as atheists or because they've grown up as Christians and can't choose to be baptised as an adult since their parents already did it.

OP Thank you for coming back and updating - given what you have said, the risk of your ex taking legal action and disrupting the proceedings seems very small.

Some atheists object strongly to their children being taught what they regard as irrational superstition.

mega I would certainly object to my DD's father securing the commitment of two "godparents" to oversee her religious education.

It's not so much the superstition and ceremony itself - but the commitments and promises being made by others.

It surprises me that so many people think that a "christening" should be meaningless to an atheist parent as if it is just a staged performance.

I am an atheist. I was christened because my Grandma couldn't bear the thought of having a little "pagan" in the family so when my Mum brought me over as a baby, she grabbed me and ran to the church to ask her local priest to do it. I don't give a flying fuck about the church and the baptism means nothing to me.
My DD isn't christened either because we didn't want to be hypocrites. She attends religious education but to be honest with you, at the age of 7 her belief in God would be akin to believing in Santa and fairies. I don't think children are in a position to judge whether they believe or not. We tell her we don't believe and explain why but if at any point in future, when she is more mature, she decided to get christened, I will have no problem with that.
But I would have a problem if someone had her christened because they believe. Are you having her christened because you want to save money on the celebration? Are you having her christened because you believe? What is her faith like? Is it really about being spiritual and understanding what it entails or is it more like ah, all the nice stories about God, love and Jesus born in the manger?

If you aren't regular churchgoers, isn't it a bit hypocritical to have the children christened? You have to promise that you will pray for them, draw them by your example into the community of faith, and walk with them in the way of Christ, and that you will help them to take their place within the life and worship of the church. You aren't promising only to do that when "life with a full house" doesn't get in the way.

I am christian, was christened as a baby and remember feeling very strongly reassured as a child by the christening candle i had on my shelf that said 'you are the light of the world' i remember very clearly getting it down regularly, looking at it and feeling loved - i'd love that experience for all the kids.

I has a similar feeling when looking at my candle too, I had a teacher who described herself as a born again Christian for a little while in primary and I adored her, but she did push the religion aspect and I swallowed it up for a while, I do get the feeling you're describing, I felt loved and happy and all warm inside but then the idea also terrified me, in that if God loved all children, then why did he choose to allow millions of children to starve to death, (It was when the Feed The World song was out ) and then what's to say he won't do the same to me if I sin, or even my family if they sin (and there's a long long list of those)
My Dad was a nasty piece of shit, he left my Mum in the shit and for years we were really really poor and as I grew older the religious stuff my teacher had taught us started having the opposite of comfort and I thought that as my Dad seemed to have a perfect happy life with his new family and wasn't being punished, then it must be my mum and us who'd done something wrong. That's how my mind was working as a child.

I know it's upsetting that your ex isn't bothered for you and the DC, I don't mean this in an offensive way and I'm sorry if it comes across that way, but your children will that they are special but because if having you as their Mum, because of having you there for them everyday of the year, having you tend to their needs, having you want the very best for them.

They will grow to see what their Dad is like. They will be hurt by him, and you will wipe the tears and possibly wait for next time, you will be what makes them feel safe and special, not a candle.

Do it OP. I wanted to christened DS as a baby but his dad was totally AGAINST it so I didn't. His dad however was not involved in his life and soon vanished after a couple of years. I regret not christening DS then.

If your ex is not really in the twins life then he pretty much doesn't have a say in all their lives ! He doesn't even sound interested.

Baptism and Christenings are entirely two different things.

I regret not christening DS then.

Why? What difference do you think it would have made to your ds?

Baptism and Christenings are entirely two different things.

No they aren't.