To get DDs christened and not tell dad?

[purpleframe]

We've been split since DD twins were babies. They're now 7. They see their dad twice a year and he lives hundreds of miles away. He is staunchly atheist and would never agree to a christening.
I've had a baby with my partner (been together for years) and we'd like to get all the kids christened together. DDs do a lot of religious education at school and would be keen.
Basically if I ask for exH permission, he'd definately say no. But frankly- he puts so little effort in (contact maybe once a month on skype between visits) that I'm inclined to do it anyway, even though I know it would be against his wishes. I know I'm probably BU (and ironically that this doesn't feel like a very 'Christian' thing to do!) But I'd really like to do it.

Link here, it's the first question...
www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2013/07/top-10-facts-about-christenings.aspx

I am christian, was christened as a baby and remember feeling very strongly reassured as a child by the christening candle i had on my shelf that said 'you are the light of the world' i remember very clearly getting it down regularly, looking at it and feeling loved - i'd love that experience for all the kids.

Wow. How did you manage that? I can't remember anything from the time when I was a baby. My earliest memories that I am consciously aware of are from when I was about 2 or three but my nappy and pram period have long been forgotten. Scientifically speaking, you first start developing memories at the age of 9 months. Not sure when the Church of England does the christening but unless you were christened after that age, there's very little chance you have some conscious memories from it.

Baptism and Christenings are entirely two different things.

In what way?

clandestino The OP doesnt say she can remember being christened - she says she can remember the feelings she had as a child when she looked at her christening candle.

I remember as a child that items I had been told I had been given as a baby created very strong emotional responses.

According to the Church of England, there is no difference.

www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2013/07/top-10-facts-about-christenings.aspx

But different churches have different interpretations, I believe in the Catholic church that baptism is a sacrament (prepared to be corrected)

Yes purple there is it you can argue not. Christenings is more or less like a naming ceremony and the child being introduced into the church/ Christian faith. Whereas Baptism is usually done after you have become born again, acknowledge that you want to follow God etc. I'm not sure about all churches but if you want to get baptised the priest will speak the person wanting to get baptised, making sure if this is what they want etc.

This of course differs across many churches.

As I really wanted to get DS christened and I backed out of it because he dad said no as he wasn't significant in his life anyway. Was that difficult to understand ?

You can argue about if there is a difference or not. But this entirely differs to a huge number of churches and only know of my experience.

not you are talking about churches that do not do infant baptism, but the OP appears to be talking about CoE which classes baptism and christening as the same thing.

NewNN, the thing is though, how a child perceives the faith. When DD came from school and started talking religion, it was akin to Santa or her fairy that lives behind the fairy door in her bedroom.
Give her Zeus, Pallas Athena or Shiva and there will be little difference. It takes a while, in my opinion, for a child to actually create a foundation for any religious beliefs (or lack of them). I still remember searching when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

Interesting fact.... (or not!)

At one point it was the law to have a child baptised in the CoE and if the parents were part of the newly emerging churches that didnt believe in infant baptism then the child would be forcefully removed from the parents for the ceremony to be performed. IIRC the parents would also be punished and fined.

Just thought I would share that!

As I really wanted to get DS christened and I backed out of it because he dad said no as he wasn't significant in his life anyway. Was that difficult to understand ?

I'm sorry if my question came across as arsey-I really didn't mean it like that. I meant that since you regret your decision, I was wondering what you thought your son would have missed out on by not being christened.

I don't agree that a christening is just like a naming ceremony-it's the parents making solemn promises to bring to their child in the Christian faith until they're old enough to decide to follow it themselves.

As somebody who was christened & sent to Sunday school as a boy but is now an atheist, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I believe Christianity is based on a ridiculous fairy story. I don't believe dunking a child in a bit of water and saying a few words does them either harm or good.

If my partner desperately wanted to go to church with our child, I'd also not object. As they got older I would tell them why I was an atheist and encourage them to make their own mind up.

Assuming their father is largely absent by his choice / negligence rather than your choice or , then I don't think YABU at all.

Purple some people do view it as some sort of ceremony as to why I put it in there. I don't think DS benefitted any less from not having one. But I guess it's a tradition in my family and I wanted to continue that. Purely selfish I know.

I don't think a man who only sees his kids twice a year should have a say in their children's upbringing. I think that's has a lot to do with with my regret.

I don't think a man who only sees his kids twice a year should have a say in their children's upbringing. I think that's has a lot to do with with my regret.

I can understand that. It sounds like you are well rid of your ex. At least the fact that objectively it hasn't actually made any difference to your son has got to be a good thing?

The thing is, this thread is all about, my ex is an atheist and didn't want a church wedding so I shouldn't have had a child with him.
Let's not forget, without him you wouldn't have had one of your children. Second, the fact that he's an atheist has no influence on whether he's a cheating arsehole not interested in his child, both of which is apparently the case.
It looks like you are pulling those things to prove that you are right to have your son christened while the christening has nothing to do with the moral profile or religious views of your ex-partner, it is a commitment of his parents (or whoever he lives with and is bringing him up and having christened) to bring up the child in Christian faith, all of which also means that you should be an active member of the church. Otherwise it looks like you just want to get back at your ex by waving the baptism certificate in front of his nose.

Can you explain WHY you want them christened though? I was christened, simply because that's what was done then. So many people still do it but without knowing why. Simply because it's family tradition.

NewNNfor2017 good points about the children"s dad.

HelenaGWells our children are dedicated but they have several God parents each and they may have even got a Bible!

RuggerHug all Anabaptist churches might offer this is they do not baptize children and both my children's dedications were done in C of E churches, two different ones.

do the children believe in God?

Do they want to be Christened?

Do they go to church regularly with you?

they are not babies - what do THEY think (it seems to be all about what you want)

OP brilliant you came back.

Let the girls decide. Their choice. The only down side is they cannot have adult baptism by immersion in the C of E if baptised now.

Megatherium (Great name) and many Christians might feel unhappy about not being able to share their faith with their kids. Which I'd why Christians often marry other Christians. Sometimes one or other parent gains or loses faith afterr marriage or kids.

NewNNfor2017 I wonder what an atheist thinks is happening at a baptism.

debbs77 I think the OP has explained why she wa ts them baptised.

Clandestino do you really think someone would go to all this trouble to get a certificate to 'flaunt' (how?) I'm front of an ex she rarely sees? She has a new husband and baby, why would she want to do this to prove a point to him?

I would definitely do it and don't see why the dad should need to know, as he has such little involvement in their lives - especially if the girls are keen. What a lovely idea to have all three children christened together - very special! My son's christening was a wonderful day x

notgivingin789 churches that only baptize adults or rather professing believers do not accept baptism of infants.

There are different reasons why different churches do or do not accept baptism of infants.

A good book to read is "The water that divides." DH and I are Christians. When dd was born I wanted her dedicated, he wanted her baptized (as a baby). We read the book and changed our minds! Literally, swapped. So I wanted her baptized and he wanted her dedicated.

We chose dedication so that when she is older, if she chooses, she can be baptized as a believer I'm the C of E. Also dedication us not such an official thing, so her choice 're baptism.

PyongyangKipperbang baptism is a sacrament in both the RC and C of E churches (an outward sign of inward grace). The RC has 7 sacraments and C of E only 2, officially, baptism and communion. Although, 'high church' C of E may recognise all 7.

"but mainly because life with a full house gets in the way of going"

Missing the point of the OP a bit but just puzzled about this bit! I've got 5 DC (none of which are baptised) and manage each week. Various families at church have 1-6 children and all manage. It is just what happens on a Sunday morning and is non-negotiable.

More seriously, the behaviour of your EXH does sound awful, but you are teaching the girls to sneak around and they will have to deal with the fallout when he inevitably finds out and is furious.

It's a no from me, regardless of your ex's view.

You're not bothered about going to church, so I personally think it's a bit of a pisstake.

Oh I don't go but my parents do... it's not hereditary!

I fully think you can be a Christian without attending church - how you worship is between you and your god. But a christening is a ritual that belongs to the organised church, and as you can't be bothered to go one, I think it's a bit rich to swan in when you fancy having a nice candle.

I wanted a church wedding with ex and was point blank refused. he has always made it very clear that he was not only an atheist, but also very anti religion.

OP, let your children decide when they are older and your Ex can't interfere.

While he may not be bothered by schools, visiting, etc, this bit of your post makes me think he will actively say no and then you're stuck. If he really is anti-religion, a christening/baptism may be the one thing that riles him up. And I say this as an atheist, who is not bothered by other people's religions.