To be concerned about these sleeping arrangements?

[ilovemilton]

DS 8 and DD 11. Contact order in place for the next four days to be at exh house. Exh is working so he has his brother staying over to look after the DC. DC have met uncle on a handful of occasions.

It's a two bedroom house. DC each have their own rooms and exh sleeps on the sofa in a sleeping bag permanently . Therefore, with uncle staying, both of the adults will be sleeping in the lounge. The bathroom is accessed by walking through the lounge.

DD says she is not happy to be spending all weekend with a stranger. She hates contact at the best of times but I'm really concerned about the actual arrangements in place. It's a stupid time of year to be able to even do anything about it. Any advice on legalities?

Yeoldma "Sadly this thread smacks of a father and a mother who are using their poor children as pawns and parents on either side influence their children's views (sometimes inadvertently) by sympathising with the children's poor lot."

What a totally shite comment. If you don't believe the OP, don't bother posting. She has done all she can and is still trying. Your comment is really stupid.

ilovemilton just a question, no need to answer if you wish not to but can your daughter speak to her local MP. Can she take an adult with her, who is not you, to the meeting?

If he has hurt them physically can she request a restraining order against him.

Can you contact Women's Aid?

It is so clear that this is not about contact with his children but about control. You have been very badly served by everyone who has forced your child back into the home of this vile man.

Could a no win no fee solicitor sue social services on your dd's behalf if they fail to help her?

www.farleys.com/solicitors-for-you/abuse-claims/claims-against-social-services/

PS I suggested no win no fee suing social services but I know she can only do this if social services have been involved and have failed her. Assuming with him hurting them, the state of the home etc they have been involved?

I'm not normally one for litigation but I feel she should be compensated for the way she has been so badly failed.

Last thought, before I go to bed...

Could you daughter choose to terminate her dad's parental 'rights' over her?

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed127998

Applications to terminate parental responsibility

Applications to terminate parental responsibility can be brought by anyone with parental responsibility in respect of that child (s.4(3)(a) CA 1989) and, with leave of the court, the child itself (s.4(3)(b) CA 1989; FPR rr. 8.1 – 8.13) provided the child is of sufficient understanding8.

As with the presumption of acceding to an application for a parental responsibility order, there is a presumption that once granted it should be continued.. The welfare of the child is paramount and courts must ensure that an order terminating parental responsibility is only used as "an appropriate step in the regulation of the child's life where the circumstances really do warrant it and not otherwise 9."

This is, of course, a very big step, but what you have said suggest your daughter has already decided she will cut her dad out of her life once she is older. I would not push for this yourself, only allow someone to discuss with your daughter if you felt this may help her, and never make it a suggestion that it would be right for you.

It does really sound like she has spent the last 5 years resenting her visits to him so to make her continue for another few years seems pointless, although I do not know how this may affect any maintenance he pays, or how it may affect her relationship with her brother.

Maybe even the 'threat' of this may allow him to 'choose' to allow her to choose not to visit at the moment in the hope of one day salvaging a relationship on an equal, not forced, footing. Just an idea, no idea how it really works in real life but someone, somewhere, may know.

Sound horrid.

I'd be ringing SS first thing.

Hi OP, I'm so sorry you and your DC find yourself in this situation. I'm also so sorry you have encountered the attitudes from individuals earlier in this thread. Even without the extra information you provided, I am horrified by others' disregard of the feelings of your daughter on this thread. I had the luxury of refusing overnight contact with my dad aged 11 and the thought of being forced by the courts sounds so upsetting. I can't offer any advice, but I am aware SS will be unable to interfere with Court procedings. Could CAB provide any links to community legal advice? I think you could land yourself in trouble if you don't comply with Courthe proceedings. Best of luck x

The father isn't there so perhaps an opportunity to log the awfulness of the conditions. I know nothing of these situations but imagine the more evidence, the better.

Can she take photos of the place with her phone and email them then permanently delete them?

Can she sellotape a couple of pages in the back of a school book and use as a diary to log events?

Your poor children. What an arse.

Gosh how the tone of the responses in this thread have changed, thank god.

I have no experience of this, but please do not give up the fight, though it all sounds horrendous. You obviously cannot risk him being made their resident parent, but do not give up the fight. There are some good suggestions here for further ways of fighting. Even if you never get to change this situation, your dd will know that you have always been there, doing your best and that will be majorly important to her.

I know you said you can't face going back to court & that his lawyer's voice makes you cry, but honestly, you're her Mum, you have to find the strength to do it.

You have been given some good suggestions of people/things that might help in the last couple of pages. Try them all.

I would be ringing anyone & everyone today to try to get official support from someone, but even if I didn't, they wouldn't be going. Ever.

You say you're not trying to stop contact, you should be.

Sending you lots of strength to continue fighting the fucking bastard.

Awful situation for your DD and u. It all sounds horrendous, haven't read all the posts.

You had me at no lock on toilet door, no one should have to use a toilet with no lock esp a girl who has hit puberty. As for no bin or Sanpro!!

If he has them for 4 days, he should b there, wouldn't leave my daughter with a stranger, even if he is an uncle.

Try and get out of this awful situation. Have no other advice except to get DD to phone childlike, NSPCC or get the police involved. I would try anything as clearly you DD is not comfortable. Why have they not done anything in the past when u have contacted them?

Can believe some of the other posters who are so unsympathetic. It's a mothers duty to protect her child.

What the actual f**k?! He goes through his 11 year old daughters bag, removes her underwear and sanitary protection and refuses to give it back?!
There is no lock on the bathroom door and it leads right onto the kitchen. She will be staying in a house for 12 hours a day with an uncle she doesn't know and posters have argued that you are being unreasonable to listen to your dds anxieties about this situation??!!

The confiscating her santiary wear and bra is just so controlling, creepy and emotionally abusive!!! I just can't believe that in 2016, children can still be so badly let down by the systems that are supposed to be in place to protect them?!

Actually sadly I can. What a pile of shite.

OP please follow people's suggestions. And please TALK to your DD. Tell her you take her concerns and upset seriously. Explain to her your hands are currently tied but you are doing everything you can to change the situation and protect her. Otherwise she will be doubly hurt emotionally by feeling like her concerns were not listened to by even her own mother. Please make sure she knows that you hear her and are not sending her because you don't care about her feelings. As an 11 year old girl, this will be how she interprets it otherwise.

for you OP. What a dreadful situation

Well, at 11, she's old enough for the court to take her feelings into consideration re custody.

So... If this is really the case, I'm not sure why she has not had the right to determine who has full custody?

I don't understand something. The father has custody, not the uncle. So how come it's permissible for the uncle to be looking after the children?

OP, it sounds horrendous and I would move a long way away and make the father pick them up each time of he wanted to see them.

It's dreadful that the legal system can be played so deftly by such a piece of work.

Can you go over there with an independent social worker to document the state the house seems to be in? And get the independent social worker to interview your daughter about the period issues? Is such a thing possible?

BoffinMum: Same reason it's acceptable for any parent to engage childcare

Have RTFT. What an awful situation OP

OP, put this in 'legal matters' and you will get some more informed advice. Please however put all relevant info in the OP.

italiangreyhound, no the DD will not be able to make an application to terminate PR- you can't terminate it when it was automatically obtained through the parents being married. In any event, it would have no effect on the court order. Termination of PR is very, very, very rare. Nor can she sue social services- would not be applicable here.

The OP has given us lots of information here, but ultimately this has been investigated by a court (including a social worker- Cafcass). I have dealt with parents accused of parental alienation in my job. I would say that for the most part, those parents sincerely believe they are doing their best for their children. Doesn't mean that they are though. It's a very tricky area.

Those of you telling her not to send the DD are not helping. Ultimately this could lead to the court transferring residence to the dad completely. If the OP wants anything changed, she has to apply to court. She says she can't. I don't know the history, but it's the only way the order can be changed.

Speaking to MP could also be a contempt of court as you are not allowed to reveal information about children proceedings to outsiders. Be careful of giving advice like this.

Oh God, how awful. I'm so sorry you have to watch your DD be abused by this man. The San pro stuff is just hideous.

I also think you need really good legal advice, maybe you can't stop contact now but prepare for the courts to listen to DD saying she won't go in a year or twos time? It's horrible for you both to be stuck in this situation. Some people really are fucking cruel

I think some responses seem harsh because the initial post was a girl doesn't want to walk past a man to go to a bathroom...which does sound rather daft. The new information is more extreme.

I work in this area and if I'm in your jurisdiction I would be happy to take your case back to court to deal with this issue without a fee. PM me if you want some practical help on it

Can I please apologise to the OP and her daughter for my previous comments on this thread. Since more information has been added, it has become clear that you are in a very difficult position.
I hope you manage to come to an outcome that works for your daughter. Good luck.

Thanks Alice.

Morning Milton
If you can face putting a new post in the Legal Matters section, then you will get better advice.

I'm home for the next half hour so if you want me to just put some bullet points together from what you've said here, I can quickly do that, PM them to you, then you can edit and post. PM me asap if you'd like me to do that.

just saw TwoGunslingers offered legal help, yay.

DD is 11 and will be going through puberty and will not want to wondering around a house looking for bathroom with a man she barely knows -regardless of his familial status. Do we care about that or not?

I would expect a child of any age to be capable of walking past another human being on the way to a bathroom. She must do that in other people's houses all the time.

Unless the uncle in question is prone to sleeping stark naked, then it's really not a problem if she has to walk past him in her PJs while he's asleep in the lounge, is it?

Don't you think it's time you just dropped it Dolly