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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be concerned about these sleeping arrangements?

342 replies

ilovemilton · 29/12/2016 21:13

DS 8 and DD 11. Contact order in place for the next four days to be at exh house. Exh is working so he has his brother staying over to look after the DC. DC have met uncle on a handful of occasions.

It's a two bedroom house. DC each have their own rooms and exh sleeps on the sofa in a sleeping bag permanently Hmm. Therefore, with uncle staying, both of the adults will be sleeping in the lounge. The bathroom is accessed by walking through the lounge.

DD says she is not happy to be spending all weekend with a stranger. She hates contact at the best of times but I'm really concerned about the actual arrangements in place. It's a stupid time of year to be able to even do anything about it. Any advice on legalities?

OP posts:
QuandryQueen · 30/12/2016 00:17

Wouldn't the courts accept "I made sure the dc were available for contact. However the eldest chose not to go of her own free will. As she is 11 I felt it suitable to listen to her preference. "

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2016 00:21

I'm amazed that people cannot see that an 11 yo girl might not want to spend the weekend in house full of men at her age

Agreed

I honestly can't believe how horrible some people are being on this thread...OP is talking about an 11year old girl who has told her Mum that she is unhappy about being left with a man she barely knows-relative or not she does not know him. My older teenage girl would struggle with this alone and would certainly not be happy about the sleeping arrangements and she isn't 11...

Agreed

Sorry but I am struggling to see what the issue is here. If your DD cant/won't walk across a living room with a "stranger" sleeping on the floor then how does she manage to deal with strangers in everyday life?

What cobblers. There is a world of difference between her being out and about and being alone apart from her younger sibling with a man she barely knows

What happens if she were to go to the beach? There is no comparison

So Jengr if you had a relative that lived far away (or something) and didn't see your kids very often but was making an effort to spend time with them you'd be happy with them saying they didn't want to because he was a 'stranger'. I wouldn't, I'd think it was incredibly rude. My in laws are overseas and don't see my kids often, but they are still family and appropriate safe childcare. I'd be very, very upset if they were dismissed as strangers by my kids. And I think the ex would have every right to be incredibly upset if his family are treated like this

More cobblers the uncle is a stranger as far as the OP's daughter is concerned.

OP I was with you from opening post.

notrocketscience · 30/12/2016 00:22

When is she 12? Yes IME the courts will listen to the wishes of the children of this age group.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2016 00:26

I feel really sorry for you and your daughter OP. Some the replies you have had are awful.

kittybiscuits · 30/12/2016 00:27

Ilovemilton I am so sorry for the comments posted on this thread in the first 4 pages. What a total fucking disgrace to Mumsnet. What an awful position you and your DCs are in Flowers

SparkleSoiree · 30/12/2016 00:30

MrManMan really?

An 11yr old girl is not having her personal needs met on contact visits in relation to her periods by the provisions of sanitary protection and pain relief and you are struggling to see what the issue is? As women we have learned to just 'get on with it' but at that young age it's still a very challenging thing to deal with for many different reasons. The OP is most certainly not indulging her daughter by giving her a safe forum at home to voice her concerns and discomfort but doing exactly what a mum should, listen to her daughter. I don't know any of my friends who would be happy for their daughters to bleed freely without san pro on visitation to their father's home and I don't know any grown woman who would be happy with that arrangement if forced into the situation for any reason!

This situation is not teaching a young female that she has the right to have her views listened to, that her feelings of discomfort around men should be listened to (regardless of whether it's her father or not) and that her welfare needs come second to the opinion and control of her father. The OPs DD needs to know that she has the right to be listened to, that she has control over her own body and the privacy of those bodily functions and that if she doesn't want to be in the company of anyone for whatever reason she should not be forced to do so. She should not grow up being conditioned to please others especially when it comes to her own welfare. Now is the age when she should be beginning to pushing boundaries, airing her own views and having those views listened to.

This sounds like a nightmare for your DD OP and I'm really sorry she's in this situation. I'm on the other side having watched DH and his EXW fight out contact but to be honest if I were you I would be looking to rearrange the contact time. After all this is contact for the benefit of your children, not your EXP. It doesn't sound like your DD is benefitting much just now but is quite unhappy and quite rightly so if what you are saying is true.

notrocketscience · 30/12/2016 00:31

Yes OP, some of the replies, particularly at the beginning were horribly lacking in empathy. It's hard to understand perhaps unless you've been through it. Makes you doubt everything including your own ability to judge a character. It's bloody tough being dragged through the Court system although it does get easier the more you do it. Not saying how many I've done but it's in double figures. Finally sense did prevail mostly due to extremely mature and vocal DD who now wants to be a Barrister and fight for Children to be listened too.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/12/2016 00:37

Yes OP, some of the replies, particularly at the beginning were horribly lacking in empathy

Probably because the info at the begining was quite lacking and there have been loads more info since.

(We have been through the court system numerous times and now have full residency of DSC.)

kittybiscuits · 30/12/2016 00:41

And that's a piss-poor excuse!

ChasinMyDreamJobWithEveryFibre · 30/12/2016 00:44

If your daughter refuses to go then you can't force her, that would be horrendous parenting. No one would force a child to go somewhere they didn't want to and if your youngest followed suit then who's to stop them, they're old enough to decide for themselves!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2016 00:44

The opening post described a sleep set up which sounds more like a student flat after a party than a situation one would put an 11 year old in. Although there is more chance the person's concerned won't be strangers in a student flat.

An 11 year old girl , in my view quite reasonably, said she was unhappy and yet posters piled on with utter cobblers about not hurting this relatives feelings. Fgs is it really that difficult to emphasise with?

Lynnm63 · 30/12/2016 00:47

What would happen if you refused to send her. If you said she doesn't want to go. Does the order have powers of arrest etc as I say I have absolutely no experience of divorce or court ordered contact.

DJBaggySmalls · 30/12/2016 00:47

OP, if your DD can make a statement about bras and sanpro being withheld, she wont have to go there again. No court or social worker would support your ex with that kind of behaviour. Flowers

ChasinMyDreamJobWithEveryFibre · 30/12/2016 00:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RockyBird · 30/12/2016 00:54

*you're

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2016 00:56

Chasin I've reported your comment, it is hugely a unsupportive and appalling comment.

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2016 00:57

Ilovemilton, I am so sorry, this (and your ex) sound shit.

Can I ask about your son, how does he feel about contact?

Please see if you can find any child charity that can help you, or citizen’s advice?

She should not be being forced to visit her dad, it all sounds very grim. But if you make her available for contact and she refuses to go in, what can he do?

The idea that she must be ‘babysat’ by an uncle she barely knows is really out of order.

People posting stupid shit comments on you and constantly questioning how much you have revealed should stop posting because ‘troll hunting’ is not allowed by Mumsnet.

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2016 00:58

Please OP look for a permanent solution to this, find the strength and use this appalling and ridiculous example of non-contact contact as part of your ‘case’.

It’s just an idea but can a child petition the court? Would a child get legal aid?

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2016 01:00

I hope there is some charity out there that could help you because this just sounds like child cruelty. Her dad is a total arse, I presume he is doing this to be hurtful to you because he sure as hell is not building or maintaining a relationship with his daughter./ Can you get the records of her tonsillitis incident? Can you keep all correspondence with him.

It almost sounds like coercive control but on a child!

You said “I reported him assaulting me.” Have you any assurance he would not be violent with the kids? You do not mention your son at all. What does he feel.

Great idea from AnaMaleka “…so distressed would it be an idea to see the GP to get a CAHMS referral…She may need assistance in calming her nerves (I'm NOT saying she has no reason to be stressed), but also perhaps if a professional hears all about it they would back her decision and provide a counter argument for the"fixed mindset"? I don't know, but just suggesting in case there's something in there that can help longer term.”

This sounds an excellent idea, you need other professionals to back you up.

Original poster
ilovemilton · 30/12/2016 01:07

She wrote to the court to say she was being hurt when she was there. She wrote to describe horrific conditions of the house, of her not being allowed out all weekend or to see her friends. She's even used photos.

They told her she was doing it because I told her to.

If I break the order, he gets residency transferred to him and the power of arrest for contempt of court is attached. Me allowing her to choose would also be breaking the order.

OP posts:
Original poster
ilovemilton · 30/12/2016 01:11

DS wants contact with a dad. He comes back angry and sad every time because he has not had the experience he so desires.

They have been hurt. I reported it to the police. He took it back to court to say I was lying about him to ruin their relationship.

DD was referred to CAMHS. She didn't meet their criteria.

DD called childline and I called NSPCC. He took it back to court to say I was getting any agency I could to collude with "my lies".

OP posts:
ChasinMyDreamJobWithEveryFibre · 30/12/2016 01:21

Omg he sounds horrendous! You need to keep trying though, they will eventually listen, I'm gobsmacked any court would force a child to go to a home where they have said and written a statement saying they're being hurt! 

Try the police again. Can your DD write a statement for the police? They will be able to see how upset she is and it will be on record.

YeOldMa · 30/12/2016 01:27

You don't need to go back to court though. If he really is denying her sanitary protection and medication either you could ring the NSPCC or your daughter could ring Childline because it is abuse. You are also quite free to send polite, recorded delivery letters asking for a lock to be put on the bathroom door and sanitary protection to be provided or allowed to be used. If he then takes you back to court, you can defend yourself (maybe record your child's distressed phone calls) and it will cost him rather than you.

Sadly this thread smacks of a father and a mother who are using their poor children as pawns and parents on either side influence their children's views (sometimes inadvertently) by sympathising with the children's poor lot.
I've been through the court system with a husband who was abusive and controlling and it is far from perfect. It sometimes seems like they gave him every chance to be a shyster but expected me to be a saint. I'm sure where there's a will there's a way.

As for the sleeping arrangements, I don't think you should necessarily dismiss your daughter's fears but I do think you should be offering as much reassurance to her as you can about her uncle if you think he is unlikely to be abusive with her. She may not like things initially, they definitely aren't perfect, but I think anxiety can be managed too. Perhaps you can get her school counselling and they would be able to support you if you really have a case.

kittybiscuits · 30/12/2016 01:52

If you have been through this situation then you have no excuse for that ^ disgusting post!

Graphista · 30/12/2016 02:05

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