To be concerned about these sleeping arrangements?

[ilovemilton]

DS 8 and DD 11. Contact order in place for the next four days to be at exh house. Exh is working so he has his brother staying over to look after the DC. DC have met uncle on a handful of occasions.

It's a two bedroom house. DC each have their own rooms and exh sleeps on the sofa in a sleeping bag permanently . Therefore, with uncle staying, both of the adults will be sleeping in the lounge. The bathroom is accessed by walking through the lounge.

DD says she is not happy to be spending all weekend with a stranger. She hates contact at the best of times but I'm really concerned about the actual arrangements in place. It's a stupid time of year to be able to even do anything about it. Any advice on legalities?

Op I've rtft. What a nightmare!

However, I think you need to send her until you can be sure that not sending her isn't going to place her in major difficulty.

First a big thick dressing gown. Second, plenty of sanpro and underwear (it was her dad who throws them away and she won't be seeing him).

Third if she's so distressed would it be an idea to see the GP to get a CAHMS referral (or whoever could help here). She may need assistance in calming her nerves (I'm NOT saying she has no reason to be stressed), but also perhaps if a professional hears all about it they would back her decision and provide a counter argument for the"fixed mindset"? I don't know, but just suggesting in case there's something in there that can help longer term.

I honestly can't believe how horrible some people are being on this thread...OP is talking about an 11year old girl who has told her Mum that she is unhappy about being left with a man she barely knows-relative or not she does not know him. My older teenage girl would struggle with this alone and would certainly not be happy about the sleeping arrangements and she isn't 11.... OP I know how hard it is- have been doing the whole contact battle for years and have never stopped kids seeing their Dad....similar experiences to you,lots of ridiculous things done by ex because 'it is my weekend'.. You need to support your daughter..she needs to come first..contact is for the benefit of the child not for the adult...and believe me it will come to a point were if he doesn't realise that then she will simply refuse to go...and when she's out of contact order then he will lose her..

Have you considered calling carcass and explaining that your daughter is struggling with issues around her contact

CAFCASS

Creaky is right, you will be on the back foot, but this is your daughter and she has to come first and if you truly believe this is wrong for her and will damage her then you can't send her. How mature is she and how able to speak up for herself?
Oh Op if I could give you a great big hug I would. It's hell isn't. If only he would stop being so spiteful and concentrate on the welfare of his children instead of scoring points and trying to wound you... The courts do NOT always make the right decision although they are basically good people and are trying to do their best in very difficult situations.

Well at 11 she has already decided that "they can make me go now but if they think he will come to my wedding or ever see my children...". He's lost her already.

Clearly a great deal of people commenting g have no idea about family court 'justice' and the myth that (a) everything they do is the child's best interests and (b) the children have a say.

Potentialcatlady is so right

I'm amazed that people cannot see that an 11 yo girl might not want to spend the weekend in house full of men at her age.

Same here ilovemilton..he pushed her too hard and the moment she was out of contact order she voted with her feet...her younger sibling followed suit and I have now been in breach of contact order for months..he even sent police at one point but I simply explained the situ to them,they had a quick chat to the kids and told me to take out a non mol against him..both mine now don't do any overnights and only see him if they feel like it.
The constant court dates etc are SO hard..I know and it's nearly broken me but it is slowly getting easier as the kids get older...I know how hard it is to hang in there but your daughter will thank you for it.

Thanks Oops and yes you are right too- lots of people here clearly have no idea about really happens in family court esp when the ex uses the children to score points/control his/her ex partner...I have been told by a different professional that my ex is clearly using the court system as a continuing form of emotional abuse because I dared to defy him by getting out of an emotionally abusive marriage - I had never thought of it that way until it was talked about but it suddenly all made sense.
I wish you well OP... I wouldn't send her this weekend ( but it's taken me a long time to get to the point that I am strong enough to do that,it's very hard)

You have to make her available for contact but you don't have to force her. Is she strong enough to say no directly to him? At the handover point?

I'm still trying to think practically... if there's no bin, can you send her with one to keep in her room? And a packet of nappy bags with her sanpro?

The legalities can seem harsh. My boys had regular contact with their dad but he frequently left them with his elderly mother for the whole of his contact, whilst he continued with his nightclubbing lifestyle. His mum herself said that at 80 she didn't feel capable of caring for two under fives. ( though she was too scared to stand up against her son) The legal stance was that dad was a suitable person to have contact and was free to make choices which as that suitable person would be sufficient to safeguard his children. This arrangement couldn't be challenged. It always felt that an accident had to happen before anyone would consider whether the children were actually safe.

I'm with you OP. From the first post.

Some people on here are disgraceful. This is an 11 year old girl who feels genuinely afraid. Jesus.

I get you op. What a horrible situation. Would your DD be prepared to say to him directly that she doesn't want to go?

Does he pick her up or do you drop her off? As what can he do if an 11 year old refuses to go? Surely at that age they are too big to pick up and force them?

Is your dd scared of her Dad? Just thought suggestion above that she says she doesn't want to go at handover seemed a good idea. Would ds go on his own? I can't imagine handing my dd over in your situation when she's so unhappy.

Would exh make a scene and frighten dcs?

This is so bizarre.
She's 11 and her dad throws out her sanpro and refuses to buy her more, there no bin for her and no lock on the bathroom door? That's just aweful, why on earth would you not do everything in your power to prevent her going?
And your initial concern was her having to walk past a sleeping man and her dad to go to the loo?

Because the courts in this country ensure that we have no power to do anything.

I think the main problem here is that you've posted in AIBU - can you get this moved to relationships? Myself and a few others can see that most of the people posting have no experience of family courts - saying "you must go back to court" when you have no money to do that, when the father can afford a solicitor and you can't, its soul destroying. I tried to support a friend through this process during most of 2016 and she was ruined by the process - her ex did very similar things - particularly controlling around menstruation that really struck a chord with me.

You need to be talking to Mumsnetters who have family court experience to see what they tried, what worked and how they coped - someone earlier said stop contact and try for non-molestation order. This is the sickening reality of trying to get away from an abusive husband, if you have kids, its just goes on and on. Not being able to protect your children from this sort of manipulation and abuse is soul destroying. You are being very brave and measured OP, and putting DD first. I wish I had something more helpful to say, but I understand. Please get this post moved.

Sorry but I am struggling to see what the issue is here. If your DD cant/won't walk across a living room with a "stranger" sleeping on the floor then how does she manage to deal with strangers in everyday life?

What happens if she were to go to the beach?

We all have to do things we don't like doing, it's part of life, you are being very very unreasonable. I feel that by indulging your daughter instead of encouraging her to deal with the situation you are preventing her from growing as a person.

Ilovemilton, hugs. I know what you are going through and I know how powerless you feel to do anything.

And oppsDearyMe and potentialmadcatlady are right, the family court system can be horrific and once a decision is made regarding contact, it doesn't seem to matter what happens during contact afterwards as nothing seems bad enough to change it xx

RTFT MrMan

For fucks sake RTFT!

OP I think you are fighting hard for your children and your xh is simply doing this for control not that he cares for them.

But since Dd is 11 the court should be taking her concerns into account. It can't be too long before she never has to see him again. If you need the strength to did deep, think of bringing your children's happiness forward.
Withholding of Sanpro is disgraceful. Are the school aware of these arrangements. Best thing you can do is reassure your DCs that you are fighting for them now.