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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be pissed off after neighbour's son called DD "a dirty bitch mongrel?"

185 replies

user1482840083 · 28/12/2016 07:36

My late father was Afro-Caribbean and my mother is a Latina originally from the Dominican Republic. DH is also mixed (half black/half Chinese), so my two children (DS is 24 – DD is 14) are made up of a diverse background. My daughter is good friends with the girl next door – she’s also 14. DD’s friend has as a 16 yr old brother. Yesterday she went over to the neighbour’s house. Like her older brother who is now works as a videogame programmer, DD loves videogames. She played her friend’s brother on “FIFA” and beat him. He called her a “dirty bitch mongrel” in response to the loss.

To DD’s credit, she told me she just laughed at the boy’s frustration (she’s that kind of girl – finds humour in the face of adversity). Fortunately, DD’s friend’s mother was within earshot and reprimanded the boy. And she forced him to come to our house and apologise. I and DH accepted the apology as we know children do silly and sometimes unthoughtful things. But when I woke up this morning I was absolutely seething – angrier than I first was when I heard what happened.

OP posts:
TaraCarter · 28/12/2016 14:01

You have also said if some one said just dirty bitch on its own, you would think they were being racist. That's not what would immediately spring to my mind, sorry. I would immediately think it meant someone who slept around, or was smelly perhaps. We are not all racist, and not all words are racist, but see that in your mind they obviously are..

Nice. Try. A stupendous Oscar-winning attempt at a "you just see racism everywhere"! V. Impressed and very much brightening my afternoon. Grin

Except not what I said, is it.

I reproduce it here:

If you told me that "dirty, etc" it had been used to a person, I'd say it was probably a jibe at someone's ethnicity.

I would have thought that "dirty, etc..." was very obvious shorthand for DBM, as it's not the nicest string of words to type out repeatedly...

I took it that he meant dog in the sense of a woman who sleeps around. Again, to be clear here in case you think otherwise, in no way is it ok to say that sort of insult to anyone.

And the reason you didn't say, "I think it could be intended as a sexual slur, rather than racist" earlier is? You seem to have been putting a very positive spin on your results...

Me, if I'd asked around and decided it was unlikely the boy was being racist and just intentionally misogynistic about a 14-year-old sleeping around, I'd mention that, too! Why?

Why are you so invested in only mentioning the most positive interpretations?!

1horatio · 28/12/2016 14:03

Tara

Ah yes.

I think trash talking is a thing in certain situations. But what happened here clearly wasn't one. (plus, trash talk after he lost? That's just lashing out and being awful)

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:12

TaraCarter....Please read what dowhatnow posted on previous page, this poster also asked their son what they thought it meant....Guess what....Same result.....Are you going to have a go at them too? Stand noted that you said dirty and not dirty bitch.....I still think the same though, I wouldn't see dirty as racist necessarily,cmaybe I'm too innocent...Sorry...You cannot make me a racist. Dirty can also mean a dirty woman who slept around, not necessarily racist. I didn't say it could be intended as a sexual slur rather than racist because I didn't use those specific terms..You can't put words into my mouth, and we don't all write the same....But actually,vyes, it could be seen as a sexual slur rather than racist, thanks for putting it so eloquently. Because I have what I think is a valid opinion that you don't agree with, does not make it wrong. This is a forum. Not invested in mentioning the positive interpretations as such, still think it's a vile thing to say, just saying not all teenagers would see it as such. Don't think that makes it any better.

dowhatnow · 28/12/2016 14:15

when my DS said he thought it meant dog, he didn't literally mean a dog with four legs. I took it that he meant dog in the sense of a woman who sleeps around

My 14 year old wouldn't have made the connection to sleeping around either. He literally thought a dirty dog, knew it was an insult but had no idea why.

As I said he isn't streetwise at all. He has good friends similar to him in a naice school in a naice neighbourhood.
Op could your neighbours son be similar? Or do you think the sentence was used deliberately because she is mixed race? I think the difference is crucial in how you should view the incident. I know various people above don't believe he could be so naive but my ds genuinely is.

Whatsername17 · 28/12/2016 14:16

We teach the kids at school that the if the insulted party feels the comment is meant as a racist insult, it is racist. Same with homophobic/sexist/plain old nasty insults. 'I didn't mean it that way' is not an excuse. 16 is old enough to know the impact of his words. I'd be devestated if one of my kids used that language. It's nice that your dd is confident enough not to allow such things to upset her, but, she shouldn't have to spend her life turning the other cheek to such comments.

BertrandRussell · 28/12/2016 14:20

I just tried it on my 15 year old. I asked him what it would mean if not intended as an insult, and he said it would mean a female mixed breed dog that had been in the mud.

I then asked him what it would mean if used as an insult to a mixed race person. He said it would be "fucking awful" and would probably get you excluded at his school. And that anyone who says it isn't a racial slur is probably a racist. Or stupid. Or both.

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:23

I think you are right dowhatnow...It's all about interpretation...None of us will ever know whether this lad intended it to be racist or not.....Or what punishment we all think is relevant....It's a bit like Derrick Bentley saying "let him have it"....Someone thought he meant "shoot him".....And they killed him...(in self defence). Derrick's family thought he meant "let him have the gun", ie surrender......We will never know.

TaraCarter · 28/12/2016 14:24

Stand noted that you said dirty and not dirty bitch.....I still think the same though, I wouldn't see dirty as racist necessarily,cmaybe I'm too innocent...

No. I. Didn't.

I said "dirty, etc" which was short for "dirty mongrel bitch". As I already said. I didn't seek to define the connotations of dirty on its own.

dowhatnow · 28/12/2016 14:24

But that is the differnce between your son and mine bertrand The whole thing hinges on whether they understand the meaning of mongrel. Your DS does, mine doesn't - so there is a world of difference in the meaning behind it.

Bitofacow · 28/12/2016 14:24

My teenagers fell about laughing at the idea it could be taken any other way but as an insult.

They would expect whoever said this to be in big trouble. They hoped whoever said it would be in trouble.

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:30

Thanks BertrandRussell...Very silly if you ask me....As all I have said is perhaps the boy didn't mean it that way...I have said that it didn't immediately spring to my mind as racist, maybe that's because I'm not normally immersed in this sort of language and was playing devil's advocate. In any court of law you expect a judge and jury to see both sides and evaluate the facts. By doing that here does not mean an automatic stamp of racism.

december10th · 28/12/2016 14:31

I think you and the boy's parents are taking this out of context, whilst not nice to our ears, this is what passes for banter amongst teens especially in gaming situations (esp FIFA which I am informed is a chav game). Your DD laughed because she understands the context.It really is not up to you to take offence.

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:31

Bitofacow....No-one is denying the fact that it is an insult....Would be daft to do so

RaspberryOverloadTheFirst · 28/12/2016 14:33

Mumzypopz Wed 28-Dec-16 11:04:06

Just asked my DS what he thinks dirty bitch mongrel means and he said "a dog". Simples.......Think we are thinking this through too much.

I think this is bullshit. I am 48 years old and I heard mongrel being used as a racist insult when I was a child. There's no overthinking going on here.

aginghippy · 28/12/2016 14:35

The Derrick Bentley situation is not analogous. There is no doubt that the boy was insulting his sister's friend because she won the game. That is what he meant and that is what she understood. No ambiguity there.

TaraCarter · 28/12/2016 14:38

dowhatnow, your son is also 14. There's a fair bit of difference between 14 and 16. Just look at the difference between a year 9's English lit essays and his or her essays two years later.

BertrandRussell · 28/12/2016 14:40

Presumably if he didn't know what it meant he wouldn't use it as an insult, though.

aginghippy · 28/12/2016 14:43

Calling a mixed race person a mongrel is racist. It's not a misunderstanding on the OP's part. She is right to be angry that her DD has been exposed to racist language.

Whether the boy was being deliberately racist or 'just' ignorant and insulting, doesn't matter. It is still racist language.

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:52

Bowing out now, honestly not being disengenuous here when I say I'm really not 100 per cent sure mongrel was meant as a pure racist comment here.....As I've said already, having thought it through its certainly not nice and can see that it can be taken as a racist comment, but not sure this kid meant it that way. Obviously some of you think it was. Fair dos......I dont. Think I'm too innocent perhaps, really honestly have not even heard it used as an insult before, must be mixing in the wrong circles....

Mumzypopz · 28/12/2016 14:55

Aginghippy.....Yes you are correct, there is absolutely no doubt he was insulting the girl, it's the level of how much that I am questioning....Ie did he mean it to be racist or not.

BertrandRussell · 28/12/2016 14:56

Well, all the 16 year olds on this thread seem to think he was..........

DixieNormas · 28/12/2016 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dowhatnow · 28/12/2016 15:00

I think this is bullshit. I am 48 years old and I heard mongrel being used as a racist insult when I was a child. There's no overthinking going on here.

We are older from a time when mongral was an everyday word for a mixed breed dog. That word isn't in everyday use anymore so many kids have probably heard of it see my ds as an example

If this kid knew what he was saying, then the book should be thrown at him but if he just thought it was an generic insult, then education is required more than punishment.

dowhatnow · 28/12/2016 15:01

never probably heard of it

BertrandRussell · 28/12/2016 15:02

"My 13 year old said the same as Bertrands ds , without the swearing but added that it was also incredibly sexist"

I knew someone would mention the swearing Grin. I just wanted to show that it was verbatim reporting.