To be pissed off after neighbour's son called DD "a dirty bitch mongrel?"

[user1482840083]

My late father was Afro-Caribbean and my mother is a Latina originally from the Dominican Republic. DH is also mixed (half black/half Chinese), so my two children (DS is 24 – DD is 14) are made up of a diverse background. My daughter is good friends with the girl next door – she’s also 14. DD’s friend has as a 16 yr old brother. Yesterday she went over to the neighbour’s house. Like her older brother who is now works as a videogame programmer, DD loves videogames. She played her friend’s brother on “FIFA” and beat him. He called her a “dirty bitch mongrel” in response to the loss.

To DD’s credit, she told me she just laughed at the boy’s frustration (she’s that kind of girl – finds humour in the face of adversity). Fortunately, DD’s friend’s mother was within earshot and reprimanded the boy. And she forced him to come to our house and apologise. I and DH accepted the apology as we know children do silly and sometimes unthoughtful things. But when I woke up this morning I was absolutely seething – angrier than I first was when I heard what happened.

But he might not have realised that it was racist. Young people may know it is an insult but not that it is a racist insult. Mongrels are never referred to as mongrels nowadays. They are cross breeds.
So tara at a push bitch or bastard are go to word but not racial slurs. But a lot of teenagers might not realise that are alluding to race with the use of mongrel.

BertrandRussell - Why are people so keen to minimize incidents like this? It seems to happen a lot

This, utterly this. 16 is not 6, its old enough to know the difference and if failing to control to avoid abusive language then to apologise quickly for the moment. He should no need to be marched around sulkily by Mummy and Daddy.

I particularly dislike the idea that we should tell boys to avoid the banter 'when its with people who will be upset by it' - that implicitly tells them their abusive thoughts and language are ok. If abusive, racist, misogynist language is wrong then its always wrong, including when surrounded by ones own tribe.

Nor is it somehow 'ok' because the OPs daughter has borne it gracefully. This is exactly the line of argument that used to be given for giving light sentences to rapists - the victim has recovered bravely so obviously it wasn't a big deal. People put up with crap, therefore the crap is ok. You have no idea what the drip drip effect of a lifetime of racist/sexist/homophobic or other slurs builds up to in any one individual.

I'm sorry that the only action the OP feels empowered to take in the face of misogynistic gaming culture is to keep her DD from the game. I would say to OP please consider seeking out gaming communities which are more positive and mutually supportive (they exist but are not as common place) not just for your DD but also to give your DS a better framework to learn in. If her interest is potentially beyond the game then encourage her to seek out girls' tech groups to find kindred spirits who won't tell her this is not a world for her.

We may blurt out things when angry, but they would be things that were readily within grasp if you know what I mean by that?
Don't forget that these things might not be our personal beliefs but those that we're exposed to on a day to day basis. So you might, in a full on fit of temper, use an insult that you'd subconsciously stored up despite it being one that you'd be appalled if you heard someone else use. It wouldn't be something you'd use otherwise, and you'd probably be ashamed of yourself afterwards, but when fully rational thought takes a step back and is replaced by anger / severe frustration / hurt etc. then you can come out with something that you didn't even know was there. It's the same idea as finding amazing strength in extreme situations (like the Incredible Hulk, but actual real life) - normally you wouldn't be able to lift that car or whatever, but when you're temporarily outside reality there's something inside you that kicks in.
If it was your average 26 year old man then I'd say it was definitely racist. A 16 year old boy, not necessarily. Crap language with no thought is what many of them use when they're around each other. Their social filters aren't in use. His mum has picked him up on that in front of OP's DD, and made him come round and apologise so she's very likely read him the riot act in private too. Now he might actually think about what he says. If OP makes a big deal too he'll go from being ashamed of himself to pissed off with OP, and that's more likely to lead to real racism developing.

16 year olds know this is wrong.
He knows it is wrong, no excuses, no evasions, no squirming.
What he said was wrong and he knows it.

That's just awful behavior. But as others said at least the parent did the right thing,. I I had an awful incident last week with a teen, whose mother thinks it's OK for me to be treated by them in this manner. So I can understand why your seething, but at the very least you got satisfaction, I got a big fat zero.

C8H - I agree with much of what you have written. Regarding DD not being allowed to play online, I hate it. I hate it so much. She can play games in offline mode but not online - not after I heard what happens in online gaming. It's beyond appalling.

DS is 24 (lives in California) and is a videogame programmer for a studio. He loves his job, and DD absolutely looks up to him. She wants to follow in his footsteps, although she doesn't want to be a programmer (she hates mathematics, even though she does well with it), she wants to be an art director for videogames. She's really good at drawing and is an amazing photographer. DS was unable to come visit us for Christmas due to work obligations, but after January he'll be off work for six weeks so he's coming to stay here. DD is so excited to see him and to hear about what his job entails.

Thanks for the suggestion about finding user-friendly groups for her. I'll look up on that for sure.

TaraCarter. Don't be ridiculous...If I ask someone what a phrase or swearword means, or what they think it means, in no way does it imply I'm ok with it. If you read my previous posts you will see that I am only interested in whether the boy actually knew he was being racist or not, because it was not something that immediately came to my mind. No doubt it was a nasty comment and not one I or my DS would use but wanted a quick natural answer and I got one. He thought it meant a dog. He was surprised it would be thought of as such. Just goes to show 16 yr olds aren't always as articulate about language as us. They use the word "sick" as good fgs.

I would let the family deal with it as the Mum and Sister are clearly furious and mortified by his behaviour and rightly so. I think there is a risk that he will just get more defensive and self justifying if you intervene further. He will turn it around in his head that it is somehow your DD's fault that he is now in a world of trouble and so she deserved what he called her. He does need to be taught a serious lesson but I get the impression his family will do it.
If his family were minimising things then I think you would be justified in taking things further.

I think it was an awful thing for your neighbour's DS to say to your DD. However, your neighbour has tried to deal with the situation and her DS has apologized.

Unfortunately, the terminology seems to be commonplace. It's used a lot on online games and I've even seen a similar term used as a username on MN in the past. (It made me flinch every time I saw it.)

I would leave it sit for now. However, if anything even remotely similar happens again, I would be down on him like a tonne of bricks and report him to school, police, etc.

I agree with Bertrand on this one. This was a racist sexist insult, specially targeted at a young WOC. That she is strong and secure enough to not let it affect her too much should not diminish the gravity of it. I blurt out profanities also when surprised or upset, but they are vulgar and not sexist and/or racist. We have enough general swear words at our disposal to not have to call people mongrel or nr, r*d when we want to cut loose. And even then, a bit of self-control is not difficult to retain.

The silver lining is that the mum is trying to take care of it and does not protect the little asshole.

You are not unreasonable to be furious.

Your neighbours are aware of what their son did, and have made him apologise. Hopefully, it was just teenage stupidity and not a rotten heart. Time will tell.

While, I totally understand your feelings, I think there is nothing more you should do about this. Obviously, I'd be aware that the boy has form she he do anything else in future.

she = should

In their defence, the kids wouldn't have considered themselves to be racist or homophobic, they were just used to throwing around those kind of terms.

BIgBagofJelly, oracle.

The word "mongrel" was used to describe dogs that are of a mixed-breed.

OP: Like water off duck's back - your daughter laughed it off!

And guess what?

I'm a mongrel myself.

Ofafrenchmind2...Sorry, but what's a WOC?

Just because DD laughed it off, doesn't mean that makes it right. I just don't understand this type of thinking at all when it comes to situations like this. DH struggled mightily with identity issues and depression when he was DD's age because he was bullied at school for having a Chinese father and a black mother. Would you go back in time and tell him he should "laugh it off" because his future daughter will do the same when faced with sexist and racially derogatory comments? We all react differently to situations. Just because my daughter laughed it off doesn't mean it invalidates the insult.

Laughing it off is a coping mechanism, not an excuse to pretend that the need to laugh it off is okay.

Don't be ridiculous...If I ask someone what a phrase or swearword means, or what they think it means, in no way does it imply I'm ok with it. If you read my previous posts you will see that I am only interested in whether the boy actually knew he was being racist or not, because it was not something that immediately came to my mind.

You have been skewing the results of your private opinion poll with odd questions which legitimise the use of a very unpleasant string of words. That is pretty much the same in effect as being okay with it!

I've already shown how your investigative method excuses "bitch". If this was a thread about a 17-year-old calling a traffic warden a bitch after a ticket, would you ever come on here and say "my DS said a bitch was a female dog, so maybe that's all the boy getting the ticket meant"?

I cannot fathom your desperation to excuse it. A young man called a young girl of mixed race this in the heat of an argument. It's possible he thinks it's an equal opportunities insult for everyone and hasn't realised it a racist one (and I said as much earlier). But he was in the act of insulting a younger girl- he knew he wasn't having a conversation about dog ownership.

If you don't like the examples with "bitch", what about teabagging? It means something very specific in online gaming, and it carries on meaning that, even if I go to my brother and ask him "what's a teabag?" and he tells me about PG Tips! (Which he would.)

14 year old ds is gaming now (only allowed with people he knows).
I asked him what he would think someone meant if they were beaten in a game and called some one a dirty mongrel bitch. He shrugged and said "a dog?" I then asked what sort of dog? and he said "a dirty one?" When asked what a mongrel was, he had no idea.

So although he knew it as an insult there was no idea it was a racist one. I have since enlightened him.

Maybe those posters who think this unawareness is impossible, normally mix with more streetwise kids? Ds isn't streetwise at all although obviously hears things at school.

There is a lot of confusion over the word twat too. Many people use it thinking its inoffensive but other people believe it has a far greater significance
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/799689-Do-people-REALLY-not-know-what-twat-means-lt-shock

Tara

Agree with everything.

Just one little correction, teabagging isn't just used in the gaming community.

Terrible. As a black woman with a white husband and two mixed race children it makes my heart sink to hear of comments like this. Rise above - when they go low, you go high as another amazing black women said not so long ago.

Just one little correction, teabagging isn't just used in the gaming community.

Ah. That bit is a bit unclear. I was thinking specifically of the act of positioning one's pixel character over the fallen body of another player's character to simulate the sex-act rather than the sex-act itself, but I can see the confusion!

TaraCarter...you are reading far too much into what I have said. please read my previous posts. Of course dirty bitch mongrel is a terrible insult, to anyone, mixed race or not. No-one on here, including me thinks it is. I was merely explaining that the word mongrel ON ITS OWN did not spring to my mind as immediately racist. Other people on here have said so too, so I KNOW I am not alone. You are skewing what I have said for your own means. You have also said if some one said just dirty bitch on its own, you would think they were being racist. That's not what would immediately spring to my mind, sorry. I would immediately think it meant someone who slept around, or was smelly perhaps. We are not all racist, and not all words are racist, but see that in your mind they obviously are. For the record I don't condone anyone calling anyone a bitch, I think it's horrid. Nor do I condone this horrid insult this boy has done to this girl. No-one is having a conversation about dog ownership you silly person, when my DS said he thought it meant dog, he didn't literally mean a dog with four legs. I took it that he meant dog in the sense of a woman who sleeps around. Again, to be clear here in case you think otherwise, in no way is it ok to say that sort of insult to anyone.

TaraCarter..You have been skewing the results of your private opinion poll with odd questions that legitimise the use of a very unpleasant string of words. ......Don't be silly, I wanted to know what my DS thought mongrel meant in that string of words.....In no way does that legitimise it.?! Don't understand your logic here at all.....Clearly that string of words is vile and cannot be legitimised? Again, asking someone what they thought it meant does not mean I am ok with it. If my son said it is indeed a well known racist comment, was happy to be corrected in my thinking. He didn't. I was right, teenagers can be a bit thick in their thinking and can throw around insults Willy billy. DOES NOT MAKE IT OK.

Should be Willy nilly