To be pissed off after neighbour's son called DD "a dirty bitch mongrel?"

[user1482840083]

My late father was Afro-Caribbean and my mother is a Latina originally from the Dominican Republic. DH is also mixed (half black/half Chinese), so my two children (DS is 24 – DD is 14) are made up of a diverse background. My daughter is good friends with the girl next door – she’s also 14. DD’s friend has as a 16 yr old brother. Yesterday she went over to the neighbour’s house. Like her older brother who is now works as a videogame programmer, DD loves videogames. She played her friend’s brother on “FIFA” and beat him. He called her a “dirty bitch mongrel” in response to the loss.

To DD’s credit, she told me she just laughed at the boy’s frustration (she’s that kind of girl – finds humour in the face of adversity). Fortunately, DD’s friend’s mother was within earshot and reprimanded the boy. And she forced him to come to our house and apologise. I and DH accepted the apology as we know children do silly and sometimes unthoughtful things. But when I woke up this morning I was absolutely seething – angrier than I first was when I heard what happened.

Also, I might (MIGHT) understand using old-fashioned insults as part of a game, as in role-playing (although in the case of a mixed-race player, the insult would be quite pointed, I think).

But this boy insulted the OP's daughter OUTSIDE the game, because he had lost to her and his fragile male teen ego could not take it. It was not a "fictional" insult, it was an actual racist insult. And despicable.

Snatched Pencil - I don't plan on going back on the apology. I woke up angrier than I was yesterday, but that doesn't mean I'll throw the apology away. And I'm sorry, I just cannot accept that I'm overreacting. When DH was a kid, he suffered from a big identity crisis and depression because he was bullied due to the fact that his father is Chinese and his mother is black. The things other kids at his school said about his parents and his racial mix nearly caused him to commit suicide. He eventually developed a thick skin later in life, but even today, his teenage days still haunt him. If "overreacting" means taking all necessary measures to make sure my daughter doesn't go through the same thing, then I'll gladly wear the label.

Just asked my DS what he thinks dirty bitch mongrel means and he said "a dog". Simples.......Think we are thinking this through too much.

Did you ask whether it was OK to call another person that?

But happy to tick off an interesting variation on "overthinking".....

"SabineUndine

That's not only appalling, I'd be wondering where he got that sort of language from. I'd steer clear of the whole family tbh."

Are you suggesting he learnt this in the family? His mother's response would seem to contradict that. It is more likely he picked it up at school or on the internet.

dirty bitch mongrel means and he said "a dog".

Well. Yes. It does. It means "unclean female non-purebred dog, i.e. of mixed breed".

Are you happy to be called that? Would you be be happy to hear that he'd called your neighbour's mixed race daughter that?

Me, I'd hit the roof.

"but I can see 16 yr olds also using it to non mixed race friends too"

That's part of the problem though. People use words like "gay", "bitch" and "retarded" to people who are neither homosexual, female or disabled.

It's the fact that those words, like "mongrel", are used as insults in the first place that is the problem. In a heated argument one never hears the insult "oh don't be such a straight white male" bandied about!

OP, yes I understand your response perfectly. The only thing you as a parent can do is keep your daughter safe and teach your son to respect others whilst he is online.

No I didn't, because I know the answer....16 yr olds do insult people in general, they know it is not ok to do so. Hopefully my DS would not use this phrase, but I live in the real world, and like I say, I've heard worse coming out of local shop, doesn't mean it's ok though. My question was around what do they think it means, and I got my answer. A dog. Us adults may think it through and think it's racist, a 16 yr old might not, they may just think it means a dog.

P.S. presumably it's okay to call a woman who annoys you a "bitch", because it just means female dog, then?

Oddly enough, wider society treats it as "abusive language", because we all know that calling a human being a dog isn't a neutral comment!

TaraCarter....I didn't say I'd be happy to be called that, I was curious as to what a normal 16 yr old thought it meant.....Doesn't mean my DS uses it, or that I'm happy it was used. This is a debate, not a slanging match.

presumably it's okay to call a woman who annoys you a "bitch", because it just means female dog, then?

Let's not also forget that the annoying thing that DD did here was to beat a boy at a game. Shame on her!

At least now she'll know.

It's the fact that those words, like "mongrel", are used as insults in the first place that is the problem. In a heated argument one never hears the insult "oh don't be such a straight white male" bandied about!

Very true.

But not letting your daughter associate with her friend anymore is imo an overreaction. And if anything would make that experience traumatic (which is something you seem to be justifiably concerned about). But associating somebody else using offensive language with losing a friend isn't a good idea, imo.

TaraCarter....I'm curious, where did I say it was ok? Certainly not my intention.

I think mumz is probably right and that the majority of kids and adults would probably think they were calling the ops daughter a dog.
You never hear the word mongrel now. They are all cross breeds.

I work with young people from a variety of backgrounds. The world I work in is very 'real'. This phrase is a big insult and he knows it.

The phrase is insulting on a number if levels, I think most, if not all the people I work with would know this.

It's wrong, he knows it.

1horatio - I don't plan on separating the two. DD's friend was distraught over it and she came to apologise for her brother's behaviour at her own accord. She's a lovely girl and I wouldn't want to break them up. But for the time being, I and DH have agreed the girls can be together at our house (they are here most of the time anyway) instead of DD going next door.

Sounds as if OP, her DD, the nasty mouthed boy's mother and sister are all dealing with the situation. No one involved is going to forget it easily or soon.
Wondering who his friends are and just how inadequate he feels at being beaten by a girl, he's the one with a big problem.

I agree that it was used as a big insult. But i'm not sure that he will have thought through exactly why it was a big insult.

user I think my comment may have also been a reaction to other people's comments.

That sounds perfectly fine imo.

I think having a talk with his mother and maybe also talking about what it would take for you to be comfortable with DD going over there again might be a good idea.

We may blurt out things when angry, but they would be things that were readily within grasp if you know what I mean by that?

I would never ever say that phrase because it's not in my vocabulary. I've never thought it. At an absolute push if I were that kind of person, maybe 'bitch' or 'bastard' - but what he said managed to be both strikingly racist and misogynistic, and that's not something to brush off and forget.

'Mongrel' in Australia means a baddun, and isn't race-related. Alf on Home and Away used to say it. In NZ one (mostly?) Maori bikie gang is called the Mongrel Mob. Perhaps it's come from H&A into young speech, like many words?

Yorkies - Yes, that's what I've been thinking. Earlier I wrote that sometimes our true colours come out when we're angry. That's how my relationship with the man I met before DH, ended. I was sexually assaulted in my early 20s and during an argument, the man I was in a relationship with said something along the lines of how brought it on myself. Taking what he said and assessing the subliminal behaviour he sent my way towards the end of our relationship made me realise he actually believed what he said. That I was at fault for being raped. And despite his profuse apologies and begging (he said he didn't mean it) I became aware of his real feelings and ended it.

When I meet the mother I'll ask whether the boy knew exactly what it means to call someone a mongrel - especially a mixed race person. I'm sure he knows what the words "dirty" and "bitch" mean.

Mumzy you implied that it was okay because when you asked your son what "dirty bitch mongrel" meant shorn of context.

Of course he'd tell you it meant a dog. So would I if you just gave me the three words. I'd probably tell you that "bitch" meant female dog, as well! If you told me that "dirty, etc" it had been used to a person, I'd say it was probably a jibe at someone's ethnicity.

Would it be okay to pretend that "bitch" isn't an immediately-recognisable aggressive insult because I asked someone else to define it without context, while they were busy doing something else?

Why are people so keen to minimize incidents like this? It seems to happen a lot. On another thread somebody is suggesting that Richard Hammond's remark about ice cream being gay was a reference to ice cream coming in bright, cheerful, gay colours...........

At an absolute push if I were that kind of person, maybe 'bitch' or 'bastard' - but what he said managed to be both strikingly racist and misogynistic, and that's not something to brush off and forget.

Agreed. I am no saint, but my go-to words when I'm fucked off beyond belief (incidentally, can lose computer games with dignity online) do not include racial slurs.