He doesn't believe in marriage

[sugarplumnight]

I've been dating a lovely man for a few months. He's wonderful, we get on really well, and it's getting to the stage where we are getting serious.

However he has told me last week that he doesn't want to get married, ever. He never has been, and he's 35 (I'm 25) At first this didn't bother me, but as I've thought about it more seriously I think I would like to marry someone eventually, and I think I would be disappointed to have to rule it out indefinitely.

So the question is AIBU to be re-thinking the whole (nearly) relationship? I really like him, I just don't know if this is going to be an issue. I'm not dead-set on marriage, and he might change his mind, but

I couldn't be with someone who didn't want to get married because marriage was so important to me.

You get so many legal and social benefits with being married, I wouldn't settle for less if I were you. It's often the woman that suffers the most when splitting up if you are unmarried. I was younger than you when I started dating my DH and marriage was a given for both of us.

It sounds like he wants to have a wife without the commitment.

I** won't go through the whole sorry saga again but if you search my user name you will be able to read the sorry tale of my best friend, her 25 yr UN-marriage to a hedge fund manager. The £750k house and holiday homes. 4 kids and his assertion that he didn't 'believe' in marriage.
By the time he had shacked up with the 25 yr old Latvian he met on 'business' , two of 4 kids were at Uni and no longer came into the csa calculation. 6 months later the 3rd was 18.
Best fr was left with no claim on the house save his generosity to 'allow' her to stay until youngest was 18. (2 yrs). and then out on her ear.
Her time is up in March. 54 yrs old. Hasn't worked outside the home for 23 yrs. Was a housewife super star making partners life easy and comfortable. Saw him go from office boy to partner.
He married the gf after 12 weeks as there was no inconvenient divorce to go through.
'and it was important to her'
Yes OP - you are absolutely right, you need to think about this really hard.

There is no 'legal agreement ' that confers the same rights as marriage.
Wills of a cohabitee can be changed at anytime without the others knowledge.

If you still decide marriage is not for you then at least you are making your decision fully informed.* Please don't subjugate your wishes for someone else's . *

Whilst you may be the higher earner at the moment, to maintain that situation, you need to keep working full time and take the minimum amount of maternity leave. You may be happy to do this. No one knows until they actually have children. Until then it's all theory.
My friend in the story above was the higher earner when they met. She CHOSE to be a SAHM because that was what she thought was best for her and her family. The point is, without marriage you don't get that choice without making yourself extremely vulnerable.
She always wanted marriage, he 'didn't believe in it' .
Turns out he just didn't believe in it with her. *
*
I would be really interested to know from all the 'happily unmarrieds ' who post on these threads - how many would change their minds if their DPs suddenly found it really important.

We will never know. Many people convince themselves it's what they want too - simply because they know it is never going to be an option.

If he doesn't have the respect and love for you to enter into a legal contract that gives you the ultimate protection financially, then he does not have the love respect and commitment for children.

My grandmothers rather crass saying still rings true whilst the law is as it is... why would you pay for milk when the cow came for free..

Have you thought about civil partnership (at the moment only available in Isle of Man)? If he refuses, it's probably because he wants to be able to walk away freely.

Gosh, reading some of these replies makes me sad for womankind. I don't ever want to get married (again). I have a little one, a career, completely financially independent and under no circumstances would I jeopardise any of this by getting married. I have a lovely partner who understands my POV and we have ensured that we are each other's declared partners for the benefits and pensions, medical decisions etc.

My advice to anyone would be to be independent, never rely on others and seee your partner as just that someone to share things with rather than security.

What is it specifically about marriage?

I'm not married to my DP and we share a home and a child. Day to day we are basically a married couple and being unmarried had no bearing on our commitment. If it's the commitment bit or the kids bit it would be a deal breaker for me. But not wanting to get married doesn't mean wanting to be single.
We will probably get married eventually but I hate hate hate the idea of a wedding so it would had to be a registry office job with no one there, which would offend both families and so isn't worth the hassle just yet. I also have never had any deep yearning to be a Mrs Someone and I'm perfectly happy just being as I am inside my committed relationship bringing up our child and hopefully more children. My partner feels the same and often says that if it were important to me at all we'd get married tomorrow.

There is nothing wrong with not getting married nor wanting to, per se. But marriage is a legal and financial contract much more difficult to get out of than cohabitees.
If he doesn't want to marry just ensure you are financially ok to do without his help.

I used to be the higher earner but now work part time since returning from maternity. It's a setback for my career but we decided it was the best thing for DD while she's still very young. I wouldn't have done this without the protection of marriage.
Passingthrough, I assume you haven't made sacrifices in your career for the benefit of your family? If you're on a financial equal footing then it's a bit different.

My husband was very much against marriage when we got together but as time went on he changed his mind!
I think he just hadn't met the right person before.

Neither of you would BU to take the stances you do on marriage, as long as it's an informed decision. Which his clearly isn't, and your posts don't suggest yours is either.

From what you say, his view is based on seeing friends and family in happily unmarried partnerships. That's a flawed approach, because the major distinction comes when the relationship ends, either by death or separation, not when it's ongoing. Equally, you don't seem to have any awareness of the fact that marriage is effectively more protection for the poorer partner. Which clearly isn't going to be you if you outearn him already at 25. I'm not saying for a second that's a reason not to marry, it isn't unless you want it to be, but if you do choose to marry him you should be aware of the financial implications.

Day to day we are basically a married couple and being unmarried had no bearing on our commitment.

No you aren't. I'm sure the latter is true, people can have very committed relationships without being married, but the former isn't. I don't say this as any slight on your relationship, only to point out that you can't 'basically' be married, you're either married or you're not, and this makes a big difference legally.

Aramint. What social and legal benefits are you referring to about being married?

As far as I can see the only benefits are about assets and inheritance.

DP and I had our 18 year anniversary this year. 3 beautiful children together. Both names on the mortgage, beneficiaries on wills, life insurance etc. We don't believe in marriage. We are very happy. If he dumped me 16 years ago when I said I wasn't prepared to get married ever then he'd have missed out on a whole lot of happiness.

None of my friends are married either. They are all very happy in long-term relationships too. In fact the only people I know with messed up relationships are those who married.

The age gap is worth thinking about. At 35 he is less likely to change his mind about the future than you are at 25.

There's a 10 year gap between me and DH. We married at 28/ 38 (we were happy to take our time in the early years because I was younger, but did have marriage and children as our intention) First child at 30/40, second child at 32/42. My body found pregnancy and birth hard so I needed more time before I could face having a third. Now at 35/45, I find that his energy level isn't what it was 5 years ago, and that to fit in a third child, we're now talking about a clash of him retiring and university together. Time is shorter than you think which may or may not matter depending on your intentions, but if you are waiting for him to make up his mind on marriage/ children, that gives less time further down the line.

Some women benefit from remaining unmarried, but it is a gamble, and needs to be an informed decision considering a range of outcomes. Most women do benefit from marriage because statistically their earning potential is more likely to be affected by child raising.

"The 'next of kin' thing is a myth.

No adult can make decisions for another adult with capacity, married or not, without a LPA, which you don't need to be married for."

It's a nebulous concept in UK jurisdictions. The otherwise young and healthy do not usually have LPA in place, but families are consulted when dealing with unconscious patients because it is best all round if everyone understands and ideally agrees.

In UK, North Amercia and Europe, this would easily extend to unmarried cohabitees - assuming normal relationship with the person's family. If you don't, it could get very messy.

And if course, if you are going on holiday you needs check the NOK law at every destination abroad. Because accidents don't just happen at home.

passingthrough1: It is lovely that you feel married but the legal situation is profoundly different when you marry versus when you cohabit. It is the emotional aspect that matters when you are together but it is this practical distinction that matters if you decide to part ways. I would never have had my newborn if my partner had been fundamentally against marriage. It would have put me in too vulnerable a position.

If you are the higher earner, and likely to remain so children permitting, you are better off not married (speaking as someone who realised this only after getting married when it came as an awful shock).

Next of kin if someone is comatose in hospital is a myth - there is no such thing as 'next of kin' just person close to you, so hospital would always take opinions of person in close relationship - the opinion of a partner you had been with for 10 years would be taken more seriously than your parents TBH unless they could prove you hated each other. You can also solve this by doing LPAs if you really really wanted to. The only time there is a legal next of kin is after death - and again this can be solved by writing wills.

Actually an addendum to the higher earner point is that, if you're looking at this purely financially, it's as important to consider IHT as it is divorce. Which I didn't in my earlier post.

OP is a woman and 10 years younger than her male partner. The odds are overwhelming that she'll outlive him. If they're likely to live in an area where a property will be worth enough to attract inheritance tax, OP would need to balance that against the risk of asset sharing in the event of divorce. I would imagine her odds of being widowed are much higher than her odds of being divorced, although of course there are ways to budget to pay for IHT and they're more reliable than trying to contract out of the legalities on divorce.

Trifle and others: my situation is probably quite lucky in that we are relatively financially secure. If I was financially dependent on him I might have to get married.
We are beneficiaries on each other's life insurance and pensions.
House in my name. I pay most living expenses and mortgage, bills. Most of DP's salary is saved (and yes, he does put in my ISA too etc). I'm on maternity so about to be not earning much so we'll switch to using his salary and not saving much for a while.
If one of us died we'd have to pay some small inheritance tax which is a bother but I'll take that risk for now.
Financially it would actually be a mistake to marry now as if we wanted to buy a second property we'd have to pay second house extra stamp, whereas we can own to separate places in separate names without paying the extra tax. Effectively a marriage tax.

Sorry to derail thread a bit. I just think our shared reluctance to do the wedding and marriage thing doesn't preclude a committed and also financially secure partnership. So understanding what he wants is key. Also if you're desperate to get married and he says absolutely no it's not great ..

You won't get more in a divorce settlement because you have a perineal tear.

Ha. Obviously not. But if you are married you GET a divorce settlement. Which takes children into account AFAIK.

If you aren't married you've taken all the physical risks of children, and the risk that he can just walk away leaving you with nothing apart from child support which by all accounts is easy to dodge out of, so - nothing.

I guess I feel that if a woman is taking risks with her health and life to have children, the least a guy can do is take the financial risk of marriage. Otherwise she's doing all the shit work with no safety net.

I just want to add that I think De Facto relationships (which are measurable if you go by immigration requirements) should be given the same weight as a marriage

I've never understood this position. How can it reasonable to expect your relationship to be legally recognised with your rights protected accordingly, be bothered to have your relationship legally recognised!

If you can't be bothered...

If you're the higher earner, you don't get anything in a divorce settlement. You lose half your pension. Lose half your assets. Gain half his debts. Some safety net.

Being unmarried, you get the safety net of kicking the fucker out of your home, or walking away if you need to, keeping your money.

Well exactly. Just have a small do in the registry office and don't tell anyone (apart from the registry office).

You don't need a big party, to change your name, no one even needs to know. Just have that piece of paper in a drawer somewhere so if you need it it's there.

Have people honestly suggested children are mutually exclusive for marriage?

Been with dp for about 17/18yrs. I am the one that will not marry. I am not religious, plus I believe it's an outdated practice, and honestly get sick of hypocritical people who marry/cheat/divorce/swear to god their vows yet don't believe in him ect.......Sod that. We have 2 happy dc's, and a happy life!

OP, if you can bear going to piles of weddings in the next few years, with people asking if you're next, having to smile away while you know you're not able to have the wedding yourself, then pretending you don't care about marriage.....Then stay! But please know that over time it gets very painful and it's v hard not to be resentful