Family bereavement - young children at the crematorium

[SpiritedLondon]

My MIL very sadly died this week following a short illness. We live a long way away from her so I feel very grateful that we made it down to see her this weekend and she had the chance to see my DD4 ( who is her only grandchild). My DH has returned home today and he has told DD that granny has died. She asked a few questions but seemed slightly oblivious about what death is. My husband has been discussing the arrangements for the funeral which are a cremation followed by a church service and a gathering / food/ wake. He assumed that our DD would be attending all parts of this. I was actually a bit horrified about her attending the cremation - that is absolutely not what I want her to remember of her granny. The whole coffin behind the curtain thing is bad enough and I know my husband will be in pieces. I am happy to answer questions about life and death but I don't want her to imagine granny lying in a coffin or being cremated. I am quite happy for her to go to the church service and the wake but she will be the only child attending. If I asked her she would say she wants to go but she would have no idea of what she was agreeing to. I genuinely don't know if IABU. Unfortunately the long distance from us means that there is no- one to watch her for us for the cremation part so I would need to look after her for that part, and as a result would not be able to be with my DH for arguably the most upsetting bit. WWYD?

I was 8 or 9 when my beloved Grandpa died. I was never asked if I wanted to go to the funeral. I also feel sad that I didn't get to say goodbye.

Namechangebitch
I totally agree, the bigger picture is the most important. The OP and her husband have a huge decision to make and I hope they are finding some help through people sharing their experiences and advice on this thread.

OP, by nature, people will have opposing views on this but I hope you can come to a decision that you are all comfortable with.

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I do appreciate hearing your experiences. I am particularly grateful for the comments regarding the experience at the crematorium since this is the aspect that I'm most concerned. ( and have no direct experience of). There will be a service at the crematorium followed by a church service elsewhere so not just 1 funeral service as such. People have suggested whether a family friend etc could look after DD for this element but probably not. PIL relocated to another part of the country a few years ago and consequently have no long long standing friends in the area. The family itself is very small with any aunts and uncles, cousins etc all living overseas.

On reflection I do think that all deaths are not the same and that all funerals are not the same and as such I hope this is a situation that can be managed. My MIL was an elderly lady who died a peaceful death. She was a regular church goer and I hope the church service will be well attended but I don't expect very strong shows of emotion. I once attended the funeral of a colleague who committed suicide and that's one situation I wouldn't want to have to experience again ( particularly as his in-laws didn't know the real cause of death and thought he died of a heart attack).

I feel very sorry for anyone who is experiencing this at the moment. It's extremely sad even though it's a natural event that will come to us all. I know that my initial response of " absolutely not" was completely instinctive and it's been helpful for me to explore the reasons for feeling that so thank you.

Do they really send the coffin behind a curtain?! In my local crematorium family just file out past the coffin saying goodbye on the way.

I still don't get how a child can be frightened? Death is part of life. Children get more scared by hidden stuff imo. Also why is it wrong for a child to see people upset? Maybe my family is tough but my children may have seen moist eyes but no howling. And then they had the fun and laughter at the wake. Balances it somewhat.

Spirited
Sorry, I completely forgot about the crematorium aspect of your question. The whole service for my husband was at the crematorium and the curtains closing was definitely the hardest bit for some of his family and because of this it did feel very final.
Has your husband said if this is the bit that he's worried about? If so, I think you're right when you said earlier that you could end up missing the bit where he might need your support the most.
Instincts do count for a lot though, you and your husband do know your daughter best.

Sorry op so slow didn't see update apologies

MrsPear - as I said and AndWhat said earlier, you can choose to have the coffin disappear behind the curtain or not.

It doesn't have to be any more distressing to a child than a church service.

Sorry for your loss

Ds1 was in the church at my mums service, it was an open coffin briefly so he saw granny and then MIL sat at the back with him for a few minutes and then left to play with him outside

I dont think he was at the crematorium but he was at the graveside

He was 18months old

Like others i found the curtains closing quite disturbing both at 18 with my gran and then with my mum...but thats because i knew what was happening

As you have said you dont have anyone to mind her so i would take her

Tell you what was 'nice' though. As the curtains were closing the music started, it was an Elvis song that we had picked, at the same time the double doors were opened and the light streamed in everyone turned to look. It was 'lovely'

Hope it goes well for you

lht22 I don't think my husband has really thought about it yet since she only died on Monday. He assumed that our DD would go to all of it and I think was surprised at my horror. I think I'm probably imagining something far worse than the reality. ( I sort of imagine curtains opening and the coffin moving on a conveyor belt and my daughter piping up " Where's it going mummy? " and my husband weeping all over the place and me desperately thinking of an answer other than " furnace" ) and I'm really sorry at this but I think I might allow myself a small smile at my internal dramatisation. ( unless you tell me it's exactly like that!).

The cremations I have been at either the coffin disappears behind a curtain, or it drops down slowly out of sight. It isn´t sudden and if I remember correctly, we have always been singing when it happens, so it isn´t so obvious as you are busy looking at the words on your sheet. I often haven´t quite realized what is happening until the coffin is part way gone.

I don´t think they go straight to the furnace either. If I remember correctly, the undertaker at my father´s funeral told me that they are taken away after they disappear to the furnace, and depending on how many funerals there are that day, it might take a little while before the body is actually burned. So you don´t need to tell your daughter it is going into the furnace, as it possibly won´t be immediately.

Interestingly Cruse bereavement counsellors are trained to encourage children to be involved in funerals.

Death is a natural part of life and whatever a small child can imagine about death and funerals is going to be far worse than the reality.

Spirited
I'm sure he hasn't, I hope he's doing ok (daft to say, I know).
Definitely have a chuckle to yourself, if you can. I think our brains always picture the worst to prepare us and it's probably never quite that bad!
The crematorium we went to had the coffin at the front but almost in the corner, the curtains were open through the service and closed (to music) after the celebrant read the committal. The coffin didn't move when we could see it so if it's the same you might get to dodge that question.
It could help to tell her how it'll look and the order before you go, at least nothing will surprise her into asking tricky questions. My son asked why we didn't take daddy's coffin with us in the hearse and I think I said they looked after him at the crematorium for now, I couldn't find a way to explain the next steps without saying the words furnace, fire or burn! I still haven't found an appropriate explanation for a 4 year old.

Spirited lol at your internal dramatisation. In one second the whole scene plays out in your mind........you say "furnace" someone starts crying, the coffin falls to the floor, children start running around howling and it's all the fault of MN.

Iht22 if he hasn't asked he doesn't need to know yet. Sounds to me like you are doing what's best in a situation where nothing is 'best'. Just keep on keeping on and follow his lead.

We had a similar scenario last year when FIL died. DS was 4 and we lived a 4 hour drive from where the service & wake was being held. We took DS and it was fine, yes there was sadness & tears but also a lot of love and laughter. DH delivered a beautiful eulogy and DS heard so many wonderful things about his grandad.

I am so pleased we took DS and it has helped him to understand why grandad is no longer around. But mostly I am thankful that I could be with my husband to support him on an incredibly sad day. I lost a parent suddenly and unexpectedly 2 years earlier and DH was so supportive, I couldn't have managed without him.

Children are incredibly resilient and accept the reality they are presented with. We read Badgers Final Gifts by Susan Varley to DS when grandad died and this was also a help.

My three boys lost their father, then a couple of weeks later two grandparents. They went to all of the funerals.

Two out of three of them also spent time with their father's body. They were 14, 12 and 10 at the time... the 10 year old was the one who didn't see his body. Some disagreed with them doing that. I got a lot of support from Nelson's Journey who very much agree with children going to funerals and I talked through both decisions at length.

You just have to do what you think is right for your family. I am a big believer in children being allowed to go to funerals, it's an important part of life.

I haven't been to a cremation that now closes the curtain in years. They don't seem to do that anymore.

I am sorry for your loss OP

Scottish sending you so much love and strength. And to your children.

My sister died when I was three and my mother insisted on me going to her funeral rather than being put with s random childminder for the day.

It's almost 40 years later now. I remember it, I remember the sadness, but that was there anyway - my mum was utterly distraught for months but the funeral helped to make sense of it. I have always been glad I went.

My own children have been to their great grandmothers funerals. We're lucky enough to have a huge family so an aunt by marriage has looked after them at the wake instead of going to the crem, but the 8 and 10 year olds both went to all of it.

Both have said they're happy to have other people's memories of granny which aren't of elderly ill women, and instead of them running and dancing.

Scottish - I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope it goes as well as possible.

When my Stepdad's dad died I was the designated childcare during the crem service - there was a little park down the road, so I took the two youngest grandchildren there for that part of the day. They attended the funeral and the foody bit afterward. Could you gently ask anyone else who's going if there's anyone suitably removed from the family who might not mind missing that bit?

Otherwise, would you be happy to miss that part, or would you rather be with your husband? The crem is definitely the saddest part of the day, or has been in my experience. The church is a celebration of the deceased's life, but the crem is the final goodbye bit and so can be (in my experience) more emotional.

So while being very aware of how sensitive this issue is all the talk of curtains closing has reminded me of my DGMs funeral.
It was along time ago and I was about 8 and when the big, deep crimson curtains swept closed I fully expected the Black and White Minstrels to come on singing " Mammy". I was a bit puzzled when everyone just left.

Kids minds don't always notice what you think.......

There were loads of kids at my nephew's cremation service (he was 17) ranging from 3 upwards. It was a happy funeral IYSWIM - a celebration of him and he loved kids and was a great cousin to them. It was also the 4th funeral my DS (3yo) had attended in 12 months (2 cremation, 2 church) - the others were elderly relatives.

I attended loads of funerals as a child too.

This sort of thing totally depends on your family culture but if your DH really wants her there then really you should take her (for his sake) and be prepared to take her out if she gets upset or noisy.

Perhaps it's a cultural thing, I'm not from a Christian culture and children at funerals is just not the done thing, I've never seen a child under about 12 or 13 at a funeral. They're not held in comfortable churches, the location of them are stark, often cold and rarely with seating and they are often very cramped. The whole atmosphere is generally quite repressive and not an environment I would deem suitable for a child, hence my earlier comment that I don't like children at funerals. I expect that if it were my partner and the children were young this would be an exception. Our culture allows a longer period of formal mourning and family children are very much involved in that which is why I think we feel more comfortable with our children not coming to the actual funeral.

I wasn't allowed to my great grandma's funeral when i was 7. I was very upset I couldn't go.

My granddads funeral was last week and we decided to have my 2 ds age 3 and 8 weeks stay at home with dh and join us for wake. Older son would have been upset seeing me upset.
It all depends what your dh wants really.

When my mum died we had to take the kids due to distance. They attended the church service which we called "grandmas goodbye service" but my cousin looked after them
Whilst myself and DH went to the crem. We met up again afterwards.

Mostly in the Church we all held It together but at the crem we didn't. The kids coped fine but I don't think they would have with the crem. They were fussed over at the wake and were happy to see so many people they loved in the same room.

For my grandmas funeral we did the same thing. Kids came with us to the service then my step mum took them back to hers for half an hour then met us at the wake.

Lesser known family members Like great aunts and uncles I've been with my brother and kids stayed with DH.

Mine were all old enough not to mess. No screaming or shouting. One of us would have removed them immediately if they caused any issues.