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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was this neglectful? Regarding DD's sleepover

154 replies

user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 21:32

DD is 8 and is good friends with a little girl 5 doors down. They don't attend the same school but over this year they've forged a lovely friendship.

This is Australia so 5 doors down is quite a distance compared to how it would be in the UK...all the houses on the street are detached and have very large gardens...we have no problem with DD running up the road to her mate's house to call for her and her friend does the same.

The issue is this. The street backs onto a large golf course...massive with a lot of old trees....the neighbours back garden, like ours...is backed onto the course.

Last night DD was asked to sleepover there and we agreed this was fine.

I spoke to her on the phone at about 8.00pm and she was happy, said goodnnight....she mentioned they were playing in the "den" in friend's back garden which is right by the back gate...the "den' is a broken down play house...wooden but not at all air or insect proof...there's a large hole on one side and it's usually mucky.

Anyway...about 11.00pm DH takes our dog for his evening walk...he goes all around the golf course and returns on a route taking him past the friend's back gate...he is about 50 feet from the house walking along when he hears this sad voice shouting "Mummy!" Mummy!" he realises it's DD!

He calls her name and she shouts "Daddy!" and he goes up to the den to see her...turns out they've been allowed to sleep out in this den...and the friend has gone into a deep sleep from which she can't be woken...DD is scared witless by the sounds of the wildlife...this area is full of wild animals...and she is too scared to go to the house to get her mate's Mother as the garden is so long and she'd been calling out for ages...

Is it a bit off to let two little girls sleep in a den like that...completely acessible from the golf course...very little protection from weather and out of earshot of the main house?

I might be being a bit precious so thought I'd ask. DH phoned the friend's mother whilst he stood there with DD and she laughed...she was in bed, asleep...he told her DD wanted to come home so he thought he'd let her know as the friend was now alone in the den...the mother just said "that's fine" and went!

DD was so relieved to be home!

OP posts:
Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:29

Four I was just illustrating the lie of the land...and I am from the UK so can compare. MOST houses in the UK are closer than these are. We're semi rural.

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 20/12/2016 22:29

God that sounds awful. Glad your DH found her. I'd be furious.

diddl · 20/12/2016 22:30

It was problem because presumably Op's daughter couldn't get to her friend's house to say that she was upset & wanted to go home.

TinselTwins · 20/12/2016 22:30

Oh lets not

In the UK houses ARE clustered close together even if they're rural and spacious, unlike abroad where "five doors down" might actually be quite far!

crispandcheesesandwichplease · 20/12/2016 22:36

Not acceptable at all OP. No way. As others have said, I'd have a massive issue with the lack of adult supervision going on in that household and would not let my DD go there ever again, day or night.

LouBlue1507 · 20/12/2016 22:37

YABU to call it neglectful, that word is not appropriate to this situation.. But YANBU to be upset. The mother should have asked you beforehand if they could camp in the garden! No more sleepovers I think!

Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:39

LouBlue Neglectful means "Not giving due care or attention to something or someone" so it IS neglectful. Your idea of neglectful might be more extreme but the use of the word is correct in this instance.

OP posts:
Pluto30 · 20/12/2016 22:43

Well, I'm in two minds.

My friend and I (rural Australia) used to sleep in her cubby house regularly. It had a roof etc. but no doubt had spiders and whatnot in it. Didn't bother us. We thought it was cool. We also used to put up a two man tent and sleep in that regularly.

I don't think the wildlife in Australia is anywhere near as bad as a lot of people seem to think. But when you're born here, you learn how to deal with it. Tip your shoes upside down and give them a whack before you put them on (in case spiders are in there), don't provoke them/leave them alone, or get the Mortein etc. We used to pick up cicadas, Christmas beetles etc. like it was no big deal.

But if this den is inadequate shelter, then it's not on. Nor is it on that your DD isn't confident enough to go from the den to the main house. The cubby we stayed in was probably a good 25m from the house, but the garden wasn't overgrown.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 20/12/2016 22:46

I don't think you're being too precious at all. We just don't live in a world where it's safe to take these risks.
Anything dirty pervert could have been prowling around.

Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:48

Pluto I think for me, the main issue was the distance from the house, the fact the Mother didn't pop out at abou 10 to check on them and also the fact that there was nothing keeping them from the public thoroughfare that is the golf course...the fences are flimsy and the gate in their garden has no lock just a latch...it's only waist height.

OP posts:
LouBlue1507 · 20/12/2016 22:49

'Neglect is the ongoing failure to meet a child's basic needs'

It was a one a off, Don't let your DD stay there again, But I would not call them neglectful!
I highly doubt they are forcing their DD to sleep out there every night against her own will... That would be neglect.

Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:51

Lou neglect is far broader than that. It's a word used in many situations...and she neglected them...she didn't give a torch, she failed to check if it was ok and she failed to go out to see if they were ok before going to sleep herself.

Neglect. "Ongoing needs" is not relevant here...do you think people can only neglect on a long term basis? Hmm Of course not.

OP posts:
smellyboot · 20/12/2016 22:52

Houses in OZ are often a long distance from each other and its the distance that bothers me and the fact that it was not easy to just pop back to the house. I'd have expected torches, snacks, and prob a phone maybe?
Just feel a but too lax for my liking

Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:53

To illustrate further, I could invite a child for a playdate....then not offer them any food or drinks...and shut myself up in my room all day.

That would be neglect. I'd be neglecting a child because I'd failed to check on it's welfare or feed it.

Obviously in this case, my DD was neglected because the Mother didn't provide any light source and she never went out to see if they were ok or even if they were THERE! She last saw them at 8 when I spoke to DD on her phone...DD says after that conversation, the Mother never came out again.

OP posts:
LouBlue1507 · 20/12/2016 22:54

I still wouldn't class it as neglect and I doubt any professional would too. Going to have agree to disagree.

TinselTwins · 20/12/2016 22:56

Lou, your definition is off, neglect can refer to a single event.

Original poster
user1477282676 · 20/12/2016 22:57

Well we're not talking about reporting them to "professionals" for goodness sake. Howerver my use of the word neglect is correct in this instance.

OP posts:
TinselTwins · 20/12/2016 22:57

e.g. leaving a baby alone in a hot parked car. Is neglect, even if it doesn't happen every day!

LouBlue1507 · 20/12/2016 22:58

I disagree... But if you so strongly believe it was neglect then why post on AIBU, asking if it was neglect?

Neglect is a form of abuse, the most coming form and is not a word to be thrown around lightly. Just because you disagree with a parenting style doesn't mean it's neglect.

ZuzaPa · 20/12/2016 22:59

OMG! I find that too sad that your little one was calling out for you & there was absolutely noone to hear her cries...... what the hell would have happened if her dad wasn't walking past??? Thank god he was, she must have been so relieved.

Not unreasonable at all... they were not safe & not supervised. Just a lucky outcome. Id imagine that was traumatic for her. What did the parents say?

tiej · 20/12/2016 22:59

So the garden has easy access from the golf course.

I wouldn't fancy that if I was in the house of a night, let alone in the garden.

Sunshine59 · 20/12/2016 23:01

My oldest DS has just turned 9, he is very mature for his age but I know in this situation he would be very scared, I don't even think I'd like to be out there, and that before I think of all the wildlife!! I would be very angry as well, and thank god it was your DH that heard her

Wombatron · 20/12/2016 23:01

Four houses over here are sometimes close, sometimes not. But they are not as close as they are in built up areas of the UK. In rural Australia the houses are on land and completely detached. Semi rural you have perhaps 50meters between houses and in city's/built up towns you have perhaps between 5 and 10 meters between houses.

Also.. bugs and spiders are a fact of life here. I'm in a caravan park at the moment and every strip light in the toilet and shower block has an ominous spider looking down at you from it. They have little to no interest in people. We don't walk around continuously looking for things that may hurt us. There's currently a red back living in the shed - it's just how it is.

I don't think the kids were at risk from them but i do agree with OP. If DH heard them, someone else with more sinister motivations could have. Doesn't bear thinking about.

PaniWahine · 20/12/2016 23:03

I'm an Antipodean (kiwi / Aussie), and 20 years ago we weren't allowed to camp in the garden overnight at 8 years old Confused. As recently as last week, my sister refused to allow her 13 year old son and five of his friends camp in a tent in her garden; she lives in a very good urban area and her garden is barely 50sqm, so easily within yelling distance. It's not acceptable. Kids shouldn't be wrapped up in cotton wool but equally there's no need for silly risks. Child abductions happen in Oz too

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 20/12/2016 23:03

This is Australia so 5 doors down is quite a distance compared to how it would be in the UK...all the houses on the street are detached and have very large gardens

Funnily enough, they do where I live... in the UK.

Anyway YANBU I wouldn't be happy.