To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

[ChristmasFuckOff]

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

DeleteorDecay

Your post for me says it all

Me too

its more that its self absorbed than selfish. You get trapped inside your own head and own darkness. People may love you but you cant feel it. You are seeing things through the filter of your own depression. You cant see the bigger picture all you can see is your own pain and/or emptiness.
I do think depression distorts peoples view of life so much that you cant say anything they do is selfish even tho it may seem that way. They are sick and they cant see it like that.

I dont believe that it is selfish no, in my experience the person who is doing it really does believe that the world will be better without them, or that the pain they are in is so great that death is the only way to make it stop. Either way, I very much doubt "FUCK YOU" is the forefront of anyones mind when they choose to take their own life.

That said, the pain of the people left behind should not be underestimated.

H found his housemate when he hanged himself, it has affected him ever since. Even now, many many years later, there can be things on TV that trigger his feelings about it. His housemate was ill, looking back at his behaviour he was probably bipolar and was certainly very depressed, and wasnt thinking of the effect it would have on H when he found him. But that doesnt mean that it didnt, and doesnt, deeply affect him.

It's not suicide that kills people, it's mental illness. No one would say to a cancer patient that you are selfish for not managing to beat it, why is it acceptable to tell a person with a mental illness that they are selfish for not managing to beat their disease?

I agree.

Not really related but I also dislike when people say "really proud of you for getting through this" (in relation to getting through a bad period of MH issues). So if I didn't get through it, would you not be proud? Would you not know I'd suffered endlessly to come to that decision of suicide?

I've been a paranoid schizophrenic since the age of 14. I had a brief period of minor depression at about 16/17.

Give me schizophrenia over depression any day of the week but I think people often forgot it isn't just depression that makes someone commit suicide

I do wonder how many are due to the effects of other meds though... I've had some interested side effects from strong meds in the past and I know some can lead to times when people slip from reality.

Tatty the night H found his friend, he moved out and never went back. For 4 months he paid rent on 2 places rather than live there, he even hates it if we have to drive down that street :(

I don't think you have to be mentally ill to commit suicide. I think its often a rational decision that death is less shitty than life.

Personally I find life mostly a burden, placed upon me by my parents. When they shuffle off, I will probably head off too. I often feel that if there were a switch to flip, rather than having to violently kill myself and risk fucking it up, then I would have flipped the switch many many times by now.
Yeah yeah life can be beautiful...but its 99% bollocks tbh. And we are all just kidding ourselves plodding on like idiots.

There's usually a severe mental health issue involved though, even if not formally diagnosed. Even if you don't necessarily recognise it yourself.

its 99% bollocks tbh. And we are all just kidding ourselves plodding on like idiots.

It isn't like that for everyone, but I think it must be true for an overwhelming majority of the world - rationally, it must be

I'd worry if my life was 99% bollocks. I think even when I had clinical depression it never got that far.

There's usually a severe mental health issue involved though, even if not formally diagnosed. Even if you don't necessarily recognise it yourself

Indeed, and for some people I feel as if it's a logical step instead of an impulsive one when MH is involved.

For example, my uncle took his life because he was fed up of a life on 'zombie medication', paranoia and fear. I don't blame him and neither does anyone who was close to him. We just wish he chose to end it in a country who could've assisted him, since he did indeed plan it for a long time

I tried to commit suicide in May this year. Short of someone physically pulling the pills out of my hand, there was nothing anyone could have done to stop me.

Arguably, it was a selfish act, in that I certainly wasn't thinking about my family, friends or anyone I knew at the time. Even my fortunately unsuccessful attempt caused a lot of heartache for my loved ones, some of whom did, indeed, react in anger and call me selfish, thoughtless and melodramatic.

Suicide is a thoughtless act precisely because the agent is unable to think about anything else. I was unable to control the symptoms of my mental illness, so did the only thing in my power to stop it, which was to try and end my life.

Chicken, I'd say that your statement itself would indicate that it would be idea to talk to someone IRL about how you are feeling.

You are right OP, we do all need to find our reasons to stay alive. For a lot of people that isn't a person, but a much loved pet. For some of us, it's a feeling, like connecting with nature, feeling the wind in our hair beside a stormy sea, or that feeling of life you get when you look at a piece of beautiful artwork that is older than any of us.

To anyone who is suicidal I would say, give yourself a few days and try to remember what connects you to life. What gives you that pure joy?

To anyone who is suicidal I would say, give yourself a few days and try to remember what connects you to life. What gives you that pure joy?

Once again, this is not important. These are illnesses that kill people every day. This makes it sound like a lifestyle choice.
Always ask this question; would you say the same thing to someone with Cancer, or uncontrolled diabetes?

To anyone who is suicidal I would say, give yourself a few days and try to remember what connects you to life. What gives you that pure joy?

I think you meant this statement well but I have to say it's slightly naive. For some, nothing gives them joy worth living for - bit like winning £1 on a scratch card - it's nice but not really worth the hassle of going all to the shop just for that

For some they do have things they can live for but can't do anymore - being paralysed is one example

wow chickenvindaloo! Ive tried to kill myself a few times and even i dont feel that life is 99% bollocks. I dont feel like im plodding on like an idiot either. Life can be incredibly indescribably beautiful, just as it can be incredibly shit. I would say its 50/50. More than anything i am powerfully interested in what happens though.....I reckon its worth sticking around as long as you can have a reasonable standard of living that you are okay with.
I certainly think that if i was old and alone and my physical health was deteriorating to a massive extent and i was in constant pain then i might want to die. Hopefully one day that will be legal in this country.
Then again i might still be interested and want to stick around. I dont think you ever really know whats going to happen or how you are going to feel about it.
Like ive said ive tried to kill myself before and almost suceeded but wen i think of it now im horrified and glad im alive. At the time i genuinely wanted to die. You may not always feel as low as you feel then so its always worth waiting and seeing if you can feel better again. Trying to connect and asking for help.

I believe you OP that you know yourself well enough to know whether you're suicidal.

However I really don't think there's any point in considering whether suicide is selfish or not.

It smacks of victim blaming to me. Being the victim of mental illness.

People who are actively suicidal are generally not in a rational place; believe me, I've been there plenty of times. If you try to tell them about 'sunny times ahead' it won't work.
All that matters is the pain, and stopping that pain. I can't be reasoned with in that state, and I imagine that isn't unusual.
What is important is stopping people getting to that point, and good, properly trained intervention to help people that are actively suicidal.

cockacidalmaniac you are very wrong. The only thing that will help a suicidal person is helping them find life links. Oncr you have reconnected with a reason to life then you have a motivator to seek help from the many organisations who can assist like the Samaritans or GP. It is not a lifestyle choice, but it is a choice. Your attitude denies people their choice, and is extremely damaging.

Meh I've felt the same since I was about twelve. Whether on ADs or not. I won't kill myself yet tho, I'll wait for my parents to die first. Even tho that could be 30 years. I'm perfectly rational. It's patronising to think everyone who kills themselves is mentally ill.

I have my own house, car, job, money, but I know I'm just running on a hamster wheel pointlessly for an occasional chocolate button. I cba tbh. Feel like I've seen it all, heard it all. Surrounded by idiots most of the time too.

Ultimately pretty much everything everyone does can be considered selfish. It's the nature of the human condition.

So suicide is another expression of our flawed selfish selves.

I think if you are suicidal don't give it a few days. Go and speak to someone NOW. Not in a few days. go for help NOW.