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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

460 replies

ChristmasFuckOff · 19/12/2016 23:28

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 20/12/2016 00:15

I can totally understand why people do. Ive been in that dark place.

It is however a very selfish act. There is no getting away from that imo.

pregnantat50 · 20/12/2016 00:16

My uncle took his life 8 years ago. He sent his wife out shopping with his grown up daughter who was visiting them. He then carefully laid out his pyjamas on the bed, went to the garage and hung himself. His daughter found him hanging there and even 2 weeks later at the funeral, she was a wreck, shaking uncontrollably from shock, grief and the calculated way he carried out his final act. That day I was in my house, in the same street as my mum (his sister), the police pulled up outside my house. I was worrying about my teenage son at the time and instinctively rang my mum, mentioning the police were outside, she replied "don't worry they are with me". I went down the road to find a policeman making my mum a cup of tea, he was waiting for me to be there for her to break the news of her brothers death. She has never really got over it, none of us have.

However my uncle was suffering from dementia at the time, he was elderly and had once had a responsible well paid job, he thought his family were suffering by having to look after him, he thought he was being selfish by remaining alive.

MrsBlennerhassett · 20/12/2016 00:16
Flowers Have you see the film 'The Bridge'? Its a documentry where the filmaker left a camera by the golden gate bridge for a year unmanned and caught footage of all the people who jumped off. When he collected the camera at the end of the year he tried to identify the people and research their lives and why they did it. Some of them survived and it features interviews with them and interviews with the family and friends of some of the people who jumped. Its incredibly moving and really gives insight into why some people kill themselves but also insight into what happens afterwards to their families. documentary-movie.com/the-bridge/

I watched it when i was at a low point in my life and it actually really helped me.

CockacidalManiac · 20/12/2016 00:16

Unfortunately, in my own experience, very often there is no help at all for chronic or 'difficult' MH problems.
It's a national scandal.

CockacidalManiac · 20/12/2016 00:17

It is however a very selfish act. There is no getting away from that imo.

That's your opinion. It doesn't make it a fact.

GardenGeek · 20/12/2016 00:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wasonthelist · 20/12/2016 00:20

I really am struggling to see how anyone can call it selfish??

I don't want to sound patronising (but will probably manage it) but if you'd seen some of the people left behind in the two suicides I've been closest too, you might - and it's not just relatives. In the one I was most closely involved with (A good friend of mine who threw himself in front of a train), an entire trainload of passengers, the driver and young policeman who arrived and tried desperately to save his life were all affected. I bet that copper (if he's still alive) sees those events in his mind to this day. I realise not everyone does it that way and my pal was very seriously mentally ill - but you could call it selfish.

TattyCat · 20/12/2016 00:21

DP and I found a body 3 weeks ago under these circumstances, whilst walking the dog. Not someone I knew. Later that week I spoke to someone by chance who knew the person. I'm not sure whether knowing the story behind it and the name of the person helps me or not, I just know that I'm struggling to get my head around it and having flashbacks. I can't sleep.

I first felt overwhelming sadness. Then I became afraid and jumpy. Then I felt anger and I'm back to feeling afraid again albeit a bit less jumpy. The circumstances were not pleasant and I'm unable to go anywhere near the area, which incidentally and sadly, is a beautiful spot. It has forever ruined our relocation to a stunning area (we'd moved here 2 weeks earlier). I no longer want to live here and am looking to relocate completely at some point in the future.

So, yes, other people can be affected forever. I don't for one minute think that this person would have considered the impact on a complete stranger, let alone family. But I'm forever altered by it.

CockacidalManiac · 20/12/2016 00:22

I think it's time that suicide was viewed from the viewpoint of those with suicidal feelings, rather than the immediate family/friends.
Some MH problems have an appalling death rate. Do cancer patients get manipulative talks about selfishness, or do they get actual, proper treatment?

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 20/12/2016 00:23

For me my MH issues meant that to get any help I had to have a mental breakdown... it was the only way to get help eight years ago and it is probably worse now.

JenLindleyShitMom · 20/12/2016 00:23

It is selfish but it isn't a deliberately selfish act. The person isn't aware of the selfish aspect of it. They aren't capable of recognising that when they are suicidal. The person acting isn't choosing to be selfish. They aren't choosing at all.

Original poster
ChristmasFuckOff · 20/12/2016 00:24

I feel completely hectored by your posts JenLindlayShitmom. I am NOT suicidal. How dare you try to tell me what is in my own mind?

I am NOT planning to do anything. Thoughts and actions are quite different from one another. I am contemplating that how, for me, like for lots of other people, there simply wouldn't be bereaved families and friends. It would be ok. Yes, there might be some surprisingly affected people who knew me on a very surface level - but I have no responsibility for those people.

You can't live your hated life just to not make somebody else feel bad you have died. That's a really, really warped reason to keep living. Life is precious, of course it is, but not at the expense of everything else - dignity and autonomy off the top of my head.

OP posts:
Tomorrowillbeachicken · 20/12/2016 00:25

Someone would have to find you though.

JenLindleyShitMom · 20/12/2016 00:26

I think it's time that suicide was viewed from the viewpoint of those with suicidal feelings, rather than the immediate family/friends.

Tbf, the OP was specifically about the impact (or not) of those others.

bibbitybobbityyhat · 20/12/2016 00:26

I agree with all of JennyLindleys posts and I don't think this thread is a good idea.

JenLindleyShitMom · 20/12/2016 00:27

Ok, I apologise OP. It certainly wasn't my intention to hector you. I'll leave you to it.

haveacupoftea · 20/12/2016 00:29

OP do you have any family or friends at all? How long have you been with your partner?

Original poster
ChristmasFuckOff · 20/12/2016 00:29

I suppose the point of the thread is that we have to each find our reasons to keep living if we have these thoughts, and I think it adds to distress to be told you're selfish on top of everything else. It makes it harder.

OP posts:
CockacidalManiac · 20/12/2016 00:29

We really need a national debate about suicide, and proper & fair MH treatment.
You don't prevent suicide by shaming those with the ideation as 'selfish'. People will have those thoughts whether you wish to discuss them or not.
What matters is decent crisis intervention, not some bored CPN telling you to have a bath and a cup of tea.

Gene9 · 20/12/2016 00:31

I think what's selfish is to make the suicidal person's pain about you/your feelings. Yes, those who find the person may be terribly impacted but can you imagine the place that person had to be in to end everything?

If someone told me in person that suicide was selfish, I'd slap them in the face

HeddaGarbled · 20/12/2016 00:31

The only experience I have had is an acquaintance who committed suicide after her husband died. She chose a time when her only son and his family were away on holiday. Her letter said she didn't want to be a burden to him. They weren't close. He has never really got over the guilt and the grandchildren were traumatised, coming back from holiday to such devastating news. It's such a violent act, it can't not have an effect on people.

I think committing suicide actually turns you into a psychological burden. There are ways of not being a burden that are considerably less dramatic.

But "selfish" is too harsh. It is unreasonable to ascribe selfish motives to someone who is experiencing severe depression.

TattyCat · 20/12/2016 00:32

...but can you imagine the place that person had to be in to end everything

and that is precisely what keeps me awake at night following our discovery.

echt · 20/12/2016 00:32

I agree with the OP.

Whose life is it anyway?

Pluto30 · 20/12/2016 00:33

Agree with Gene

Also, to those saying, "If they'd only known how much we loved them...", you're showing a fundamental misunderstanding of suicidal depression. It can't just be combated by telling them you love them. Minimising the seriousness of these feelings by saying such things is half the reason that people see suicide as selfish.

DeleteOrDecay · 20/12/2016 00:34

There's no denying that suicide does have a knock on effect. But I still don't believe it is selfish.

Suicide to me is a symptom of an illness, it's not a choice that a person of sound mind would make. Human instinct is to survive, to over ride that instinct, a person would not be thinking rationally like they would be if they weren't ill.

It's not suicide that kills people, it's mental illness. No one would say to a cancer patient that you are selfish for not managing to beat it, why is it acceptable to tell a person with a mental illness that they are selfish for not managing to beat their disease?

Physical or mental, an illness is an illness and the person suffering is not doing so on purpose. Of course the effects of it are devastating for those around it, but it's not the sufferers fault.