Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

I think the humanitarian reasons for allowing refugees in were far more great than any reason of cheap labour

Germany's decreasing population and need for cheap labour is a given. But even leaving that aside, then why not have a more coherent and stringent refugee policy? Why not turn away those from 'safe' countries?

Well there is an easy answer to that, and it's because the answer to that, and it's because the asylum system has been perverted beyond belief.

The asylum system was set up after WWII to protect persecuted groups like Jews, Gypsys, Homosexuals, Communists, the disabled. Because the Nazis chucked them all in concentration camps or gassed them and they weren't offered asylum. Asylum was supposed to be for persecuted groups. So in Syria the Yazidi, Christians, Shi'ite's in rebel areas, gays, people who actively work as opposition forces.

Now it doesn't matter who you are. As long as your country is at war. If the same laws had been applied in the 1940s it wouldn't just have been Jewish people we'd let in to save. We would have had Goebbels and Goering and Himmler and most of the general German Nazi population just turning up and saying 'You can't send me back, it's too dangerous' Then they probably would have won a very finely balanced war.

I really, really support an asylum system based on providing asylum for those who are in danger because their ethnic or religious group is in danger, or because they are in danger because their political views put them in danger.

But just because their country is currently at war? No. Especially because that generally means rich people fucking off to leave poor people to be killed in the resulting war.

You can try to twist stats all you like Darth, but the facts speak for theirselves. Muslims in particular are overwhelmingly overrepresented in almost every prison in Europe

France, Muslim prisoners account for 70% of the prison population, 12% of general population

Germany, Muslim prisoners account for 13% of the prison population, 6% of the general population

Spain, it's 70% V 2.3%

Belgium, it's 45% V 4-6%

UK, it's 20% V 4%

You get the picture, still think Europe doesn't have a problem with Islam?

Nope I think you have a problem with Islam, at every turn you attempted to use data to prove a point.

There are many factors other than Islam that would be part of the reason why those figures are what they are. The fact that there muslims make up a far higher proportion of the population at the peak age for criminal offending (15-25), than they do as a proportion of the population overall might be an indication. Socio economics and discrimination within the legal system ( being more likely to get stopped and searched etc) are also important reasons, but you'd rather ignore these and let your prejudice run riot.

You tried previously to use the data to support your biased views and had them challenged effectively at every turn. You have used data incorrectly, data from biased sources, done anything to try to explain your nasty views.

When your BrietBart crime stats were effectively challenged, you went to find new ones, these still didn't actually prove what you wanted, so now you turn to the prison population. Again there are reasons for this, but far many more important ones that the one that you attempt to blame.

Prejudice taints you, and renders your arguments void.

There certainly has been high numbers of young men converting to Islam when in prison

This could be a good thing for many for some it can lead them to something more destructive

There are questions that need to be explored more as to what is the attraction to an extreme Islam and what is leading young people to commit such atrocities. This isn't new but we have now got to a point where it can't be ignored anymore

The concerts will push up the figures

Converts

I'd also be interested to see what proportion of young men aged 15-25 in these countries are Muslims.

If you take as a given that that as a % of the population the older generations (65 +) will have a far lower proportion of the population that are followers of Islam, then this suggests that a far higher % of the population of the younger generations would be so than is the national average.

I am pretty sure that the % of muslims among 15-25yos in France is a damn sight lower than 70%.....

Most definitely, but I'm pretty sure its a damned sight higher that 12% too.
What are the % that have converted in prison?
What are the % of this group that would have been classed as living in relative poverty prior to going to prison?

There are a huge range of factors which could and do influence this figure, but again the simple answers are sought here.

Again over simplification of the situation to go "its Islam's fault".

I didn't say it was Islams fault

But there is a growing number of radical Muslims what is the pull it simply isn't happening with other religions

We can't ignore the fact the Islam is central to this that isn't the full explanation as to why this is happening

As I said before I think poverty and lack of opportunity is a factor but that still doesn't answer why Islam

The desire to be part of a movement to belong to go to war to gain power and wealth to seek justice all this can be applied in many areas of life from small street gangs to large highly organised criminal gamhs

"But there is a growing number of radical Muslims what is the pull it simply isn't happening with other religions "

Yes I do wonder what those reasons could be?

There was concerns years ago but was largely ignored

In Europe now we have high numbers of young men away from home away from what is normal for them angry nothing to do it's a gift of those that want to covert them to a more radical Islam as it was to move into poor countries to get into jails and now in Europe to the point we are at war a different type of war but we have no idea who has been radicalised as we haven't really wanted to look into the issue until recently

We can step around gently and say well they are not real Muslims or their actions are not instructed by the Koran but that means nothing they have made choice in the religion as they understand it and for them Islam has offered something that we are not grasping

Yes the Western world has never done anything to deserve this injustice, we are the innocent victims in all of this, and there is not one tiny little thing I can think of to see why it might be easy to radicalise angry young men.

Isis are slaughtering Muslims too their fight initially was against other Muslims not the west to covert or kill them people who beleive in the same God take instruction from the same book

Why would someone choose to blow up people from the country he has been bought up in including Muslims

The fight against the west is not the full story

Yes and the rise of fundamentalism or the chaos which allowed it to become so powerful is nothing to do with us either.

I'm sorry, but this is far, far more complex than the way it is being presented.

I could do a sum up of the reasons I think we have ended it this situation if anyone is interested, if not I CBA.

And where have I said it is nothing to do with the west

I have posted before its complex

I am intelligent and fairly knowledgeable about this complex subject so please do explain

Sorry, I wasn't really getting at you, but there have been many psters on here that seek to blame one thing and use it as an excuse to display prejudices.

You really don't want the essay explanation lol

BillSykesDog Sat 31-Dec-16 03:19:20

This post sums up the whole situation and has been said by leading experts in security. However its plain and basic common sense as well.

"Germany's decreasing population and need for cheap labour is a given. But even leaving that aside, then why not have a more coherent and stringent refugee policy? Why not turn away those from 'safe' countries?"

Decreasing pop was a handy and believable reason to give the people but that is not the reason because few of the newcomers are employable. Germany knew that and soon it will be obvious. Only the genuine, reasonably educated refugees will want to work; the others will refuse to work for "the man". You can see this in their rabid Europhobia.

In relation to the discussion above about crime, it is irrelevant whether the incoming are refugees, asylum seekers or migrants Imo anyone committing a serious crime within the first 10 yrs of being in their new country should be returned to country of origin. If CoO will not accept back, then just deposit them on the tarmac of the airport.

Balls, Sandrina. Even the least educated man can lift heavy stuff on a building site. They've bought them in because they will accept low wages and shit conditions and thus force low waged Germans to do the same meaning rich Germans get richer. Migration benefits the rich. The more people you have the less valuable they are and the riper for exploitation.

"Hussein quashed terrorism (he was actually a killer of terrorists) in Iraq, those other MENA countries will seek you out, execute you and your family if you are found to be even planning something like that. There are many informants, and therefore difficult for any individual or group to be successful. So, the terrorists come to Europe instead."

You are correct Southallgirl, and the reason some of them head for Europe is to eventually overwhelm it. Europe and UK does not yet fully understand what they are dealing with, their sense of fair play and equality will continue to be abused. The reason why so many ME-NA countries have despotic leaders is because unfortunately the populations need hard rule.

Of course the least educated man can work on a building site, but many of these newcomers will decline to work for the Man. Understand?

One of the greatest social changes this country has ever had was post Black Death when so many people had died labour became in short supply and people could name their terms and that ended serfdom and introduced free labour. Ditto WWI, so many died that it emancipated women and redistributed wealth in the long term. It's so sad the left wing has been brainwashed into supporting policies which make life so much worse for the poor.

Yes the Left has got itself stuck between reality and how they want society to be. They will repeat the same mistakes of communism however it is dressed up. The EU is a version of communism, still disguised pretty well from some people's understanding.

May Allah strike down the killers in Istanbul and bring them to his justice.

Yes he will. Because he can earn money which is worth enough to make his family rich in his own country while it's only enough for poverty wages for the British poor. But they don't matter right? Emily Thornberry says so.