Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

It is very difficult to screen immigrants effectively when you have so many coming in from troublespots, but I do think the German authorities should have made more efforts to do so. I was horrified at what happened in Berlin, not least because we were thinking of going ourselves, but went to Edinburgh instead and were enjoying the Christmas market there when we found out about Berlin. My first reaction when I found out was "well there's the thanks you get for being an open nation Germany". I was quite surprised, I really didn't think Germany would be on the ISIS hit list but it just shows how wrong you can be.

those depressing signs in German swimming pools telling migrant men not to molest women

I hope that if anyone does try anything in a swimming pool the woman concerned (and those around her) gives the perpetrator a bloody good slap. How dare these "refugees" (always healthy well-fed young men, hence the inverted commas) abuse the hospitality of their host nation like this? I don't care if they are "conditioned" to think of women as possessions. Show respect for the country that has taken you in. A true refugee would not abuse women or anyone else in their host nation - some of these men are simply (not so) petty criminals looking for a new area to commit their crimes.

The problem is that only 1 of the attacks this year has been caused by someone who expoited the route into Germany as a refugee. The Nice attack was committed by someone who had been resident for over a decade, the Paris attackers were French/Belgian born.

Even the vast majority of attackers on NYE last year were not refugees that had been allowed in during the crisis.

Saying "this is what you get for being an open country" is utterly inaccurate.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the fact that so many of the people concerned were 2nd/3rd generation made the attacks all the more unnerving to me. It suggests that integration may be going in reverse.

DarthPlagueis - The problem is that only 1 of the attacks this year has been caused by someone who expoited the route into Germany as a refugee. The Nice attack was committed by someone who had been resident for over a decade, the Paris attackers were French/Belgian born.

So what is your point? If anything, this is even more of a reason to be wary of letting a mass of mostly young male refugees into Europe if the ones who have been here for several generations are so unassimilated and full of hate, how will importing even more help? Surely it would be better to help real refugees in their own countries rather than letting them in to Europe? We already have many problems in Europe and even if they are not terrorists, they do come from a completely different culture with a lot of traditions and beliefs which are incompatible with western culture and the freedoms which our ancestors fought for. If so many of the ones who come here come with attitudes which are abhorrent to many people they are hardly going to produce generations of liberal minded, tolerant people if the ones who have been born here and exposed to western culture for generations are so against it? Rather than risking making the problem worse by letting in people who are mostly at odds with our way of life, why not give them the tools to help them make their own countries a success?

Please read the Guardian Cologne opinion pieces again. They were minimizing, victim-blaming, woman-hating filth!

I used to subscribe to the Guardian as well. Quite frankly, I'd rather subscribe to The Daily Mail now.

Specifically Gaby Himscliff's column

(On my phone, can't link)

DarthPlagueis - The problem is that only 1 of the attacks this year has been caused by someone who expoited the route into Germany as a refugee. The Nice attack was committed by someone who had been resident for over a decade, the Paris attackers were French/Belgian born.

I suppose all the rapes,sexual harassment and robberies don't matter to you. You won't find these stats in the guardian but migrants in Germany commited over 140,000 crimes in the first 6 months of 2016 alone, these crimes aren't victimless. In Austria 1 in 3 asylum seekers commited crimes this year, hardly the 'minority' that certain posters keep banging on about.

Some people just refuse to see what is in front of their faces.

The Belgian/French attackers may not have been refugees but it's extremely likely they had weapons training in Syria then used the refugee routes to return to Europe and possibly to import the arms used.

That makes no sense.

They were European citizens and/or residents, so wouldn't need to use "refugee routes" to travel to/from Europe. They would just take a plane and happily flash their passports or residency cards at passport control. Simple.

Oh yes Cote, because they would really want to take guns through the traditional routes and announce their real identity when they're on watch lists and the security services know they're terror supporters who've been in Syria.

It's much easier for people who are up to no good to move in a mass of anonymous people where they will not be asked to give their identities and can give false ones with no questions asked. Fingerprinting only seems to be picking up these people's routes after they've committed attacks rather than picking up that they're not who they say they are on entry.

It's an easy way to return without detection because young Muslim men who enter Turkey and stay for months or years and can't account for their time or how they supported themselves then return via traditional routes are going to be identified as probable ISIS supporters and arrested/monitored. Which is a bit inconvenient if you're planning to get a bit bomby or shoot up a theatre. It's not rocket science and has been widely reported.

Widely reported where?

I would like to see a (credible) report of these Europeans risking death by attempting to cross the sea to reach Greece on a little boat, rather than just hopping on a plane.

The left wing independent no les...

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-up-to-5000-jihadists-in-europe-after-returning-from-terror-training-camps-daesh-islamic-state-a6885961.html%3Famp?client=safari

Several of the Paris attackers slipped back into the continent by using fake documents to pose as refugees, travelling along the well-trodden route via Turkey, Greek islands and up through the Balkans, raising fears that Isis was using the crisis to traffic its fighters.

A senior British intelligence official said last month that it had become “virtually impossible” for security officials to detect potential terrorists among refugees as the use of fake passport continues.

Isis is known to hand out counterfeit Syrian and Iraqi documents to disguise its recruits as they enter the continent, often via Turkey and Greece.

Other than that just have a quick Google. It's been widely, widely reported including by reputable sources.

If you can't see why they wouldn't want to announce their return you're either disingenuous or a bit daft. Plus I doubt people on suicide missions are mad worried about boats health and safety certs.

What I don't see is why anyone with half a brain would not just take the easy route via plane if they have access to fake passports.

Daft is assuming people determined to die in a suicide mission wouldn't mind dying for no reason.

The problem of extremism in British people is increasing. Voices like Maajid Nawaaz need to be paid attention to. Urgently.

Because fake passports are pretty easily picked up in airports with access to biometric and fingerprint databases plus access to watch lists but not in a muddy field in Macedonia or a camp in Greece with thousands of other people, little technology and hugely overstretched staff.

And traveling in that boat would be very much part of the mission, not 'nothing'. Plus it's likely travelling terrorists would have access to the least risky crossings because they will have the money to pay for it.

As I said, it's not rocket science. Even with false documents you're not going to take a chance going through somewhere fully geared up and equipped to catch people who shouldn't be traveling when there is another route with little chance of detection and very few questions asked.

And migration checks. You need a visa to travel from outside the EU. EU passports would be almost impossible to forge with biometric data to a standard to fool an airport. So the documentation would need to be from outside Europe so a visa would be needed which would be almost impossible for them to get as they're issued by EU countries and again this would mean they'd get picked up on. Terror suspects can't simply hop on a plane back from Syria and waltz in unchallenged.

The point of my thing above was to another poster who laid the blame for the Berlin attacks at the door of Germany's actions in the refugee crisis.

If you'd actually read my post Notjustanotherusername, I actually mentioned the sex attacks, but again said that very few of the people arrested and charged were refugees from when Germany had become easier to get into.

The data you use about crimes in Germany is not from the German Police force or the government but from a study by the Gatestone Institute which is notoriously Islamaphobic. and the ones regarding Austria apparently only concern Vienna, and are from BrietBart which is using massive hyperbole to sell a story which when you get the figures isn't that big at all.

"fake passports are pretty easily picked up in airports with access to biometric and fingerprint databases plus access to watch lists but not in a muddy field in Macedonia or a camp in Greece"

I don't know if you've ever travelled from Turkey to Greek islands. I have. Commercially. It's not hard, and there's no biometric/fingerprint/whatever check. Just a couple of bored fat border control people.

My point which you just don't want to get is that there are a million ways to travel, none of them as dangerous and foolish as clandestinely on an overcrowded dinghy in international waters.

The data you use about crimes in Germany is not from the German Police force or the government but from a study by the Gatestone Institute which is notoriously Islamaphobic.

Wrong again, the info is available from Reuters

www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

'Migrants in Germany committed or tried to commit some 69,000 crimes in the first quarter of 2016, according to a police report that could raise unease'

69,000 in 3 months so 140,000 in 6 months isn't hard to believe.

widely reported

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/abdelhamid-abaaoud-belgian-mastermind-of-paris-attacks-boasted-of-escape-from-authorities-in-isis-a6736566.html

"The 27-year-old joined Isis in Syria in 2013, where he goes under the name Abu Umar al-Baljiki and was seen in a video transporting mutilated bodies to a mass grave"

"But after training with the terrorist group he returned to Belgium in order to carry out an attack in his home country days after the Charlie Hebdo massacre in January"

"ut Abaaoud was not in the house at the time and managed to escape back to Syria, being featured in the seventh issue of Isis’ Dabiq propaganda magazine the following month.

He said he and his two countrymen had trained in Syria with Isis before returning to Europe “in order to terrorise the crusaders waging war against the Muslims”.

"My name and picture were all over the news yet I was able to stay in their homeland, plan operations against them, and leave safely when doing so became necessary.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12004462/paris-attacks-france-belgium-security-services.html

"French and Belgian security services are facing difficult questions as to how one of Europe’s most wanted terrorists was able to slip back into the country from Syria and mastermind the Paris attacks from a flat in the city.

"The ease with which Abaaoud appears to have been able to travel unnoticed back through Europe will increase fears that Isil terrorists are exploiting Europe’s migrant crisis to travel unimpeded along routes being used by refugees.

etc etc etc etc etc

darth you have mentioned a political slant a number of times to various posters but reading your posts you are the only one coming across to me as having some sort of specific political agenda.

Justanother

The specific data you quoted at first was from the Gatestone institute, you did not extrapolate the data from the report that you link to.

Interestingly the report also says:

"Absolute numbers of crimes committed by Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis - the three biggest groups of asylum seekers in Germany - were high but given the proportion of migrants that they account for, their involvement in crimes was "clearly disproportionately low", the report said"

So yes, there were crimes committed by asylum seekers, but actually for the numbers of asylum seekers they were disproportionately low. Kind of goes against your argument, just using the numbers and talking about how big they are without comparing it to the total number of crimes/attempted crimes there is also fallacious.

I have a political angenda Elf? Nope just like it when people aren't prejudiced, or attempting to skew data.

Like I said, an incredibly complex issue to which you lot are applying simplistic and flawed reasoning tainted by your prejudices.