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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To gt annoyed when people say about baby girl names...

278 replies

ChequeredPasta · 14/12/2016 08:20

...shouldn't be too 'feminine'.

I enjoy lurking on the baby names thread. It's quite a happy, joyful thread really, people who are excited choosing names for their precious baby.

But what really boils my piss is the people on there who always seem to chime in when someone mentions that they like a name such as Poppy, Felicity, etc and say 'Oh, it's a bit twee and girly. What if they want to become a high court judge?'
Shock
Since when did being a female with a female name mean you couldn't become a high court judge?! It smacks of internalised sexism to me.

It reminds me of a time that I observed a (white) colleague asking a pregnant (white) colleague what she was going to call her baby. The pregnant colleague had a black husband. She answered 'Aeshia, we think', and the colleague answered " Oh, I'm not keen on that. It's a bit 'black' isn't it?" The pregnant colleague looked nonplussed, and answered, " Well, she will be black'.

Why do seemingly normal people perpetuate this nonsense?? I presume to call my daughter 'John' in order for her to seemingly have a better chance at becoming a high court judge.

And while we are at it, IMO the only reason that people are keen for their daughters to get a traditionally 'mans' job is because they are much better paid than traditional 'womens' jobs such as nursing, carework and teaching, because female traits and work is so undervalued. You know, because a male banker brings so much more to society than a careworker Hmm.

It seems that everything feminine is so devalued. Even the way that people encourage their daughters to play with 'boys things' (science sets, trucks etc), which I obs approve of, but when it comes to dressing a boy in pink, or giving him a 'feminine' name, or encouraging them to play nurses and carers. It's like the worse thing in the world a boy do is to act in a feminine way, and now girls too should be ashamed of their female names, their 'female' way of being, and their fannies. So the answer is to wipe out femaleness, call everybody steve, and destroy anything pink.

And I say this as a female with a non 'feminine' name, a well paid professional 'mans world' job, who loved pink and desperately wanted to be called Felicity as a child.

SO Mumsnet Jury....
WIBU to call my (fictional) 2 daughters and 2 sons as follows:

Delicacy
Kindness
Humility
Femininity

And strongly encourage them (in a tiger mum fashion) to ALL become high court judges to stick two fingers up to these twunts?
Grin

OP posts:
KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 14/12/2016 08:22

Yes.

Call one of them Lettuce.

Rixera · 14/12/2016 08:26

Yanbu. Although delicacy might be stolen by cannibals at some point so mentally prepare yourself for that one.

CuppaSarah · 14/12/2016 08:26

Or hobnob at least.

badtime · 14/12/2016 08:28

Funnily enough, I get annoyed on the Baby Names board when people say they dislike a name for a girl because 'it's not very feminine'; I see that much more often, actually.

Different people like different sorts of names. Personally, I loathe twee names because I don't like how they sound and find them dull.

The High Court Judge thing is separate, and is often racism, classism or xenophobia (inadequately) disguised as concern.

iamadaftcoo · 14/12/2016 08:52

Yanbu. I fucking hate this too for the same reasons.

DoItTooJulia · 14/12/2016 08:54

Isn't it Lettice? Wink

splendide · 14/12/2016 08:56

God yes, there is so much ignorance around this stuff.

I also love people smugly sneering at "alternative" spellings which are just international variations. So ignorant.

KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 14/12/2016 08:56

I have no idea.

I think the spelling is irrelevant.

HOHOHOvariesBeforeBrovaries · 14/12/2016 08:56

I get annoyed when people call a name "too girly" but I also get annoyed when people say "You can't call your daughter that, it's a boys' name".

Unless the name is "Ihaveapenis", it's not a boys' or a girls' name, it's a name.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 14/12/2016 08:57

I think a lot of parents, whether naming boys or girls, forget that they are naming a future adult. What sounds cute on a baby sounds ludicrous on a 30 year old professional woman or a 70 year old retiree.

gaelicgirl100 · 14/12/2016 09:03

In this vein too I hate that gender neutral names are just boys names given to girls, James or even quirky spelled....ayden.
What about Marion, Leslie as traditional neutral names? or wasn't there a thread about iris for a boy recently? Or suggestions for typical girly names to be given to boys? Of course not! Because as your op points out, femininity is worth much less in this world than masculine.

KoalaDownUnder · 14/12/2016 09:03

YABU. I don't think it's about gender, it's about age.

Babies and toddlers are adorable. It is cute for them to go by Buddy, Lolly, Honey and Boo.

Adults are...adults. What is cute on a baby becomes silly on an adult.

I really don't think Felicity counts as a cutesy name, FWIW.

Soubriquet · 14/12/2016 09:03

Oh god I know what you mean

God forbid you give your daughter a "twee" name but if it's too boyish, you get ripped to shreds too

Dd has a "twee" name.

I've seen people on here slag it off. It's a shortened version of an old fashioned name that has become a name in its own right

Some people like it. Some people hate it because it's too "cutesy"

I don't give a fuck whether you like it or not. It's her name

HeadDreamer · 14/12/2016 09:06

I agree with you on girly names, and have two DD with very obviously female names.

However I disagree with you on men/women's job. The reason to encourage girls to do the non caring job is because we shouldn't be limiting our girls to what we 'considered' feminine. There are plenty of societal influence to tell them they should be carers, teachers, hairdressers without me also telling them the same thing.

And why is banking or science actually a man's job? FWIW, I work as a software developer and it's actually extremely family friendly. (Except the bit where most of your colleagues are males, but that can be changed if more females enter the profession). I think many females dismissed a lot of careers just because they think it's not for them. I work full time but I have never missed a school play or sports day. I go to their after school sharing of work etc. I can do that because the job offers a lot of flexibility with working from home. I do 1 day a week at home, and it can change to any day as long as I arrange my meetings. I'm in total control of my calendar. Because of my commute is an hour one way, I avoid rush hour by going in early and leaving the office at 3pm every day. (And then continue at home so I do enough hours). I also regularly leave at 2pm on fridays because the traffic is awful by 3pm. I have colleagues who work part time 5 days school hours during term time and swap to 3 days during school holidays.

Also why should we aim for something lower paid if you can get more money doing the same hours.

TheProblemOfSusan · 14/12/2016 09:08

I agree with your points about the devaluing of feminine things - they're seen as inherently less because of the female association (knitting vs carpentry, for instance).

But yabu about Felicity, I think that sounds really grown up. And also lovely.

PurpleDaisies · 14/12/2016 09:12

And while we are at it, IMO the only reason that people are keen for their daughters to get a traditionally 'mans' job is because they are much better paid than traditional 'womens' jobs such as nursing, carework and teaching, because female traits and work is so undervalued. You know, because a male banker brings so much more to society than a care worker

This is rubbish. For years girls were told they couldn't be bankers, doctors, scientists etc because those jobs were for men. Girls should be encouraged to consider all jobs, just as boys can be nurses, carers or whatever. It's nothing to do with "female traits" or "male traits".

user1480946351 · 14/12/2016 09:12

Twee and girlie are not synonymous with feminine. For example, Felicity is feminine, Daisy-Mae is twee and girlie. Felicity could be a fine high court judge, Daisy-Mae is less likely.

YABVU. People can say what they like in names. I agree with them, I didn't want twee and girlie for my daughter, I wanted strong and powerful names for a woman, not just a cute baby.
I wouldn't want to go through life with some of the ridiculous baby names that people give their girls.

Soubriquet · 14/12/2016 09:13

Why would Daisy-Mae never be a judge?

She can be whatever she wants to be

user1480946351 · 14/12/2016 09:13

And its not devaluing femininity, its the very opposite. Giving girls dimunitives instead of proper names is doing that.

user1480946351 · 14/12/2016 09:14

Why would Daisy-Mae never be a judge?She can be whatever she wants to be

It would be nice if that were true. It isn't though.

Rainatnight · 14/12/2016 09:14

Ha! I'm one of those people and have a thread on that board.

It's not to do with being too 'feminine', for me. It's to do with names that have a particular kind of cutesy and, dare I say, infantile quality to them.

I'm not being sexist when I say these names will be hard for these little girls when they grow up. I love feminine names and all things feminine, and like you, I think there's everything to be proud of and celebrate in femininity, and that it shouldn't pose any barriers to anything these girls don't want to do and be.

But what IS sexist, IMHO, is giving a little girl a name that people will, for right or wrong, 'read' as cutesy for the rest of her life.

Soubriquet · 14/12/2016 09:14

Course it is

Especially now days where unique names are much more common

Rainatnight · 14/12/2016 09:16

Sorry, there shouldn't have been a 'don't' in this sentence!

'shouldn't pose any barriers to anything these girls don't want to do and be. '

AuntieStella · 14/12/2016 09:16

YABU

People ask about name on an intent forum in order to get opinions about them. You're not going to stop people doing that just because you don't like some of the opinions (though if asking for your own baby you can explain what you like/don't like about suggestions and SE dif more opinions are forthcoming).

And first impressions, including names, do matter (no matter how much you think they shouldn't). Wasn't it all described in 'Freakonomics'?

And there's a difference between girly and feminine: for example to me there's a totally different vibe for Fifi and Artemis.

People on MN discuss how they see the names. The prospective namer can then make their own mind up. It might be the only place where they can get opinions without a) ending up in a terrible tangle with family (usually in-laws!) and/or b) thinking loves their choice of name because everyone raves about it (to their face, because most people are not rude) whilst really thinking 'that's terrible I hope they come to their senses, but I'll get used to it if they don't'.

MN is a place which offers responses unfiltered by social restraint (and that's not a synonym for being rude - reservations can be expressed perfectly politely)

Attempts to curb that strike me as unfortunate.

PurpleDaisies · 14/12/2016 09:16

Don't forget, people on the baby names board have been asked to give an opinion on a name. If they think its twee, it's fair enough to say it. And while people are obviously entitled to call their children what they want, I think it's a bit cruel to saddle a girl with an traditionally male name like Stephen for the rest of their life.