not to be involved with SIL schemes to sack my cleaner?

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SIL and I share a cleaner. The cleaner has been coming to me for about 18 months and I recommended her to SIL shortly after. I've never discussed SIL with the cleaner.

We have completely different relationships with the cleaner: SIL has been chummy with her while I work fulltime so barely ever see her. My DH and DC do, and they like her.

The cleaner is quite flakey (says she'll come on a Monday and you don't see her til Wednesday, etc) but this is fine by us because we really just need the hours of work done - doesn't make a huge difference when. She has a key to the house and I trust her.

For whatever reason, the cleaner's just decided not to go back to SIL. The cleaner didn't tell SIL, she just gradually stopped going round. She still comes to us though. SIL thinks the cleaner stole from her. SIL is totally bemused as to why cleaner stopped coming.

SIL wants to get her key back from the cleaner and to 'get closure'. She wants DH to tip her off the next time cleaner comes to us so SIL can come over and get her key back and speak to cleaner. We absolutely do not want to do this. Cleaner seems honest and we don't want her to come to us and worry she'll have to see SIL.

DH said No, we don't want to get involved. SIL gone bonkers and said we aren't supporting her and we are involved as we recommended the cleaner. Who is BU?

I think you and your DH come across as silly. You don't have to get involved. You can say to SIL you don't want to get in the middle but will ask her to return the key, you can say/leave a note for the cleaner that you don't want to be involved or know what happened and you respect her, but could she please leave your SIL's key with you so that you can give it back and she won't have to see her.

YANBU

If the SIL wants the key back its up to her to sort that out and not to expect you to do it. Presumably she wouldnt be able to do this if the cleaner didnt have people she knew as clients.

She is NBU to want her key back, not in the slightest, but she should not be asking you to get involved. The issue is between her and the cleaner and nothing to do with you.

Mavis, do you think we should ask the cleaner for details of what is going on then?

We really don't want to. Part of the reason we think we have a better relationship with the cleaner is that we completely work around her anxiety. It isn't hard for us to do. And she's a really good cleaner.

Eh? We're doing the exact opposite.

You're feeding it because you refuse to take the very basic step of asking the cleaner nicely to leave SiL's key out.

We just had a really tongue biter of a conversation down the phone where SIL accused the cleaner of stealing and neither of us rose to it.

Well, SiL is correct. Cleaner has stolen her keys. You don't seem to be disputing that cleaner still has them?

Your SiL needs her key back, but that's a matter between her and the cleaner. That said, if she really doesn't trust the cleaner then she will need to change the locks anyway, because she could have made a copy. By all means mention it to the cleaner, but it's not your place to facilitate an ambush. Your relationship between you and the cleaner is up to you - if you're happy with her, and don't really mind if she's there on a Monday or a Weds, then that's your business.

FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with being chummy with your cleaner. One relative has had the same cleaner for about 20 years, and she's now more of a friend of the family who happens to do some cleaning now. However, that does mean that she'll pop in for a cup of coffee even when she's not working and generally keeps an eye out for the now elderly relative. Trustworthiness in a cleaner is worth more than any other quality - and to be honest, I think if you're nice to your cleaner then they're far less likely to steal from you in the first place!

Im beginning to think the cleaner is closely related to royalty, such is the ridiculous deference, and attention given to her feelings..she must be extremely sensitive. Wouldnt mind a job where I could turn up when I felt like it, mind

Just stay out of it all then OP, tell your SIL thats what you are doing, then thats that. Thats all saying you won't miss the high drama of it all, and the relish in your SIL's upset

Its so blatant

I think it's mad to suggest she should just shrug her shoulders and let the cleaner keep the keys to her house so you can avoid one single awkward conversation.

Why shouldnt the OP avoid an awkward confrontation?! Its not her key, not her problem.

They dont want to be involved, what the hell is wrong with that?!

No no, not at all! Just mention that SIL would like her key back. Be nice about it, apologise for having to ask if you must, but if SIL isn't getting a reply from this woman then you are the logical next step.

And as another poster said, she's within her rights to contact the police about it, so I'd consider that.

I'd do it for family. It's just a question. SIL hasn't insisted that the OP punch her in the fanny on her behalf or anything.

I'm sitting her trying to imagine a set of circumstances in which I wouls tolerate, nay actively encourage, my cleaner to:

• turn up to clean my house whenever the fuck she pleases
• pander to someone who is "easily startled", needs "gentle handling", etc etc
• steals my SiL's house keys (and possibly her property).

And the only three scenarios I can come up with are:

• Cleaner has serious intel on me and is blackmailing me
• I am paying cleaner an absolute pittance and can't afford to sweat the "small things" (timeliness, theft etc)
• I am a Seventh Day Adventist

Just to be clear even SIL doesn't think the cleaner has 'stolen' the key. She sees it as part of cleaner cutting contact.

We are not relishing SIL upset. That's fucking unpleasant and totally smacks of transference. I'll be as crystal fucking clear as I can: we get on with SIL.

We want nothing to do with this. And DH thinks SIL has lost two necklaces and doesn't like that the stealing went from 'possible' to certain over the course of a week. We think she's brooded on it.

Sounds like SIL doesnt like to think that it was down to her that the cleaner left, so has convinced herself that the cleaner has stolen from her and then legged it.

Whether she stole from her or not is irrelevant though, its still perfectly ok for you to say "No, we are not getting involved in this, its between you and the cleaner"

Bloody hell, I'm in the wrong line of work. I think I'll jack it all in and be a cleaner as they are in such demand they can do whatever they like! The cleaner has no legitimate reason to keep the key so if she's avoiding doing this then there is something suspicious. I agree with you that it may well not be about the key at all but by refusing to allow the 'ambush' and only agreeing to get the key back, you are not getting too involved and are not facilitating a confrontation. You are also not being confrontational yourself as there is nothing unreasonable in the request.
Like others have said I'm amazed that you would rather risk a fall out with a close family member than risk upsetting the cleaner.

YANBU. Neither you nor DL need to be involved in this.
The contract is between SIL and the cleaner.
You have a separate contract. Nothing to do with you and DH
SIL is an adult and should deal with this herself and not get in the way of your relationship with you and your cleaner

The fact remains that the cleaner has not returned the key.
Its not hers to keep.

Whether or not she plans to rob your sils house is irrelevant. But if just asking her to leave it on the table next week would upset her then you have to ask yourself why? If she has done nothing wrong then there is no need for her not to return the key.

I feel for anyone who has been through DV and would have every sympathy for her but if she put this on her business leaflet/card:
Terms of my Business

1. I can turn up when I chose to do the cleaning.
2. I can start to miss days at your house without telling you in advance or giving you a reason.
3. I can stop whenever I want without telling you about it.
4. I will ignore your calls and txts about it.
5. I will keep your house keys.

Think that might put a few people off wouldnt you?

Why are people missing the fact that sil HAS tried to contact cleaner more than once and she is ignoring her.

One note to leave the key isnt going to ruin op and cleaners relationship is it?

And OP yes you are feeding the drama. You are twisting things to suit yourself. Nobody has suggested you ambush the cleaner, NOR ask her whats going on. Stop making it all about you and the damm cleaner.

Its just a simple fact. Cleaner has key which doesnt belong to her. She has to return it one way or another. Much easier to leaave it on your table than to explain to the police why she has it?
Leaving a note is apparently the easiest option as you are apparently too scared to actually ask her yourself in case being asked to do the legal and moral thing upsets her!

I have never heard such a fuss over one simple request

I'm not feeding the drama . I've had a brief conversation with SIL in which I didn't rise to her accusing the cleaner of stealing, and I have done nothing, absolutely nothing, else.

"Feeding the drama' would look a lot like getting involved with cleaner/SIL relationship, or at least DH expressing to my SIL that she's wrong about the stealing. That's not happening.

Literally the only drama is on this thread! DH and I are just minding our own business.

Over two hours of YABVU. Please listen OP. This is so simple OP, just breezily say as you walk past: "BTW can you bring SIL's keys next time. She needs them. Easier just to hand it to me since you're already coming over." Job done!

You recommended cleaner, SIL befriended cleaner, cleaner is flaky, and unreliable, stops working for SIL, without telling her, cleaner keeps SIL's key, but brazenly keeps cleaning for you and oddly never mentions leaving SIL.

I don't agree with ambushing the cleaner. But get SIL her key back fgs, and an explanation as to why cleaner just risky walked out on her.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like something slightly weird has happened between the cleaner and your SIL, probably during one of their heart-to-hearts, and probably a misunderstanding, but with the result that the cleaner can't handle having anything further to do with your SIL. Your SIL suspects this, feels guilty, and this is why she is talking about 'closure'.

Why should add get the key? It's a totally different contract. SIL has an agreement with the cleaner. SIL paid the cleaner for her own cleaning.
Why of earth should OP be responsible for getting the key back.
Two entirely different contracts / business arrangements

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with add

so why ask us if you BU?

Why of earth should OP be responsible for getting the key back.

Noone is asking the OP to be responsible for getting it back, but why can't she help her SIL get it back?

Since the cleaner has been blanking her SIL, her SIL can't make the arrangements herself (despite trying numerous times) and the OP has contact with the cleaner, in this scenario why wouldn't she want to do the SIL a favour by just asking the cleaner to return the key, next time she comes over to the OPs house to clean?

I agree that you shouldn't facilitate a 'sting' and trap the cleaner into a meeting with SIL.
However- I don't think it would kill you to breezily ask her to bring the key with her next time, or ring your SIL.

You recommended her which would suggest that you've vouched for her so that's why SIL is probably trying to involve you.

Be careful though - your attitude to 'why should she need her key back?' is really quite odd, it's her door key, her property.
If you are dismissive over it to SIL, you may well end up falling out. I'd be really pissed off if my SIL thought it was acceptable to someone to just have access to my home if I thought they may have stolen from me.

Oh ffs! Just say to the clean something like "SiL can be a bit intense and it's fine if you don't feel comfortable working there anymore but if that's the case could you send the key back or give it to me and I'll pass it on?" Or whatever.

If she gives you the key or drops it back then just say sil "that's your closure, have a look on your local FB page for a good cleaner. This one still suits us though" or a more fluffy version of sil couldn't take that.