I don't want to lie to my kid about Santa

[timeforachangeofname]

I don't feel comfortable lying to my future kids about Santa, but I don't want them to ruin it for everyone else either. Has anyone managed to bring their child up not believing in Santa, without them ruining it for believers, or am I going to have to lie to them for the sake of others?

Yes, you've missed the:

pp playing MN bingo.

pp getting popcorn.

Ffs Lweji my fanjo is boiling and my teeth are climbing the walls now

It's surprisingly magical but now my children are getting older I sort of wish we'd never started it and had made up some sort of family tradition instead as I'm not sure it's going to feel the same without believing. How do other people make hanging stocking a special post belief. Is the tough of presents enough?

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff

Sorry, what?

You may want to do it when you have young DC you seem to be missing the point - they want to believe. And you may be inflicting your own ideas on them when they dont want it.

Why not wait and see if they do though rather than starting at babyhood?

Planning not to do Santa with our DD. We're going to do stockings, and presents under the tree and it'll be clear who they're from- same as when I was growing up. I loved Christmas as a child but didn't like the idea of a fat scary man coming down the chimney into our house. We're planning to tell her it's a story, like in her books.

And it's all too consumerist now for my liking. It wasn't so bad when I was a kid but now it just seems to be more and more about stuff. The magic for me has always been in the beautiful lights (candles, tree lights), crib service, Midnight Mass, enjoying a meal with my family. Having time off work to enjoy each other' company. That's the magic of Christmas I want to pass on to DD.

To those who don't do Santa- what do you do on Christmas Eve? (Genuine question!) Do you put your children's gifts out whenever they're bought and wrapped? Do you say 'after you've gone to bed mummy and daddy will put your presents out'?

We're having our winter celebration (Xmas) on the 24th. (We never do it on 25th.)

Stockings will go onto beds ready for the morning (they don't get hung up) and presents will start going under the tree once wrapped. Usually in drinks and drabs. Then in the morning they'll open their presents before we go to another relative's for a late lunch. They have their presents from those relatives there. And that's it. Simple.

(Once went away for Xmas with a family with 4 small children. They had to hide a car full of presents in the house and put out footprints and ring bells outside doors and goodness knows what else. What a faff!).

In fact it's those lies that show me they did care enough at the time to attempt to give me a nice childhood.

Yeah, Iwasjust. I don't tell my kids Santa is real because I really want them to have a shit childhood.

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.”
― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

I'm telling my kids the story of Santa like I tell them the story of the Gruffalo. So much of their world is make believe and magic at the moment, I'm not sure how much they actually believe in any of it or how much they know is pretend. When we walk though the woods we go on a bear hunt, or look for the snake and owl and fox and Gruffalo, and when we are out at night we look up to see if Santa is out for s ride on his sleigh . We pretend to see them in the same way we pretend to go to the moon on our cardboard box spaceship. Not lying, it's make believe and encouraging and developing their imaginations. However, when/if they ask me 'is Santa real' I'm not just going to say yes, because I agree that feels like lying.

I just asked my 3 year old 'where does Santa live' and he replied 'with the Gruffalo!'

This thread has got ridiculous now (not all posts).
Telling kids that Santa exists is not going to give them a better childhood than those children whose parents don't pretend that Santa exists. Ffs, it's perfectly possible for kids to have a fantastic childhood and even a fantastic Christmas without belie wingman Santa. It's also perfectly possible for kids to have a fantastic childhood without even celebrating Christmas. Lots of religions don't celebrate Christmas and the children are not damaged or miserable because of it. Some households might choose not to do Santa because they might have children with asd etc who can't handle the concept of Santa.
I have no problem with people doing Santa but likewise I have no problem with people choosing not to do Santa.

joinourclub

Is that as far as you take it though, or do you pretend santa has made/brought presents?

Its just a story like a fairytale! Just don't go barking on about him coming down the chimney and non believers don't get presents and elf on the shelf & all that crap. FC is a character that kids/grow out of

I don't like the lying either. I don't like the tooth fairy either. I just say you put your tooth under the pillow and when you wake up there is a coin.

What are all these 'white lies' that other people tell? I don't tell white lies. I find it odd that people think this is ok.

Oblomov, my kids get the coin in the morning and then ask for their teeth back!

White lies: I don't do it very often but it can be slightly necessary. "Why is the train so late, mummy?" "Well, I think they're just having a few problems with the signals." Um, not going to say "Because someone depressed has just decided to kill themselves by jumping in front of it, dear." That kind of thing ...

"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

OP, you'll be fine. You don't have to develop elaborate lies, and I understand for most people the stance of never giving a straight answer and letting them come to their own conclusion works well. And you'll see how your eventual child handles things.

My 3yo came to her own conclusion that he was "pretend" and had massive tantrums at any suggestion otherwise, so we ended up not "doing" Santa. People attempt to draw parallels to stuff like you don't make sure to keep telling a child there isn't tea in the play teapot, etc., yet in our case, I don't, but she does: she will stop any kind of 'pretend' play with "You know I'm not really a kitten" at frequent intervals, and get extremely distressed if an adult does not 'step out' of pretend mode to reassure her. I really didn't feel the need to press through this distress to get her to believe something that's made up anyway. Made it through last year without spilling the beans, and this year she seems able to hold in her mind the concept that someone could believe something different (which she couldn't last year) and I think has agreed to not talk about Santa's reality with her friends.

Also, people seem to be forgetting young children's ability to hold contradictory beliefs. Despite being absolutely adamant that Santa is pretend, my daughter is also extremely jealous that Peppa Pig got to meet Santa and she didn't. And when I mentioned that she saw him last year, I get, "But Peppa met the real Santa." But then she'll immediately tell me Santa is pretend and Peppa too. Doesn't stop her from being jealous, though.

White lies

'Yes sweetheart, that is a beautiful picture. Of course I could tell it was a horse. (It looks like a turd love)
'Granny does love you but it's a long way for her to come to visit' (. You are lovely but your granny doesn't give a shit)
'Your brother loves the present you got him' (he doesn't. He has ASD and he's not fussed about much except DVDs)
'I can't let you do my hair, I have just got to go and make supper' (you are not touching my hair again)
'Katie can't come and play - let's see if she can come next week' ( let's hope you forget next week but if not, at least I've delayed a bit because Katie is nice but her mum is always late and then won't go home )

I'm always saddened by posts about ruining Xmas and childhood for children by revealing to them that Santa isnt real.
We just told our lot that Santa is a game invented by grown ups to make Xmas more fun for kids, but we're not comfortable lying about it.
Now they are old enough to look back on their childhood and they've had no regrets about that. DS actually said he felt a bit smug knowing the truth ahead of the other kids. Plus they also said they felt it made us more trustworthy. They have always been able to be open and honest with us.
They get why people do Santa but wont be doing it with their own kids.

More trustworthy than what?

You think that if you had done the santa thing but otherwise had parented the same they would be saying 'yeah, you are great but I've never really trusted you since the whole santa debacle?'

It's not a defining aspect of childhood nor does it determine our relationship with our children. My children are incredibly open and honest and trust us implicitly. That was created across their whole childhood and wasn't thrown out the window by the discovery that santa was a bit of Christmas whimsy.

My kids have stockings, any when they were little they enjoyed the story of Santa, but more like it's a fun thing to do , a nice story, I never expected then to " believe, " anything. So they got the excitement, and the " poetry " of the story.
It never occurred to me to pretend it was real, when I was a kid I just thought me and the adults were playing the Christmas game. We didn't have a chimney, and it seemed unlikely that Santa and his flying mammels could get round every one on Xmas ever.... So that's how I brought my kids up.

What are all these 'white lies' that other people tell? I don't tell white lies. I find it odd that people think this is ok

"Mummy is our neighbour ok she looks ill"

" Yes she is fine probably has a cold"

Reality she is battling breast cancer and it doesnt look good.

" Is grandma in heaven now"

" Yes she is - when you look at a star she will be looking back down on you"

Reality - she is gone, bone and nothing else under the cold hard earth.

" Mummy why dont we see aunty vie and uncle raymond anymore?"

" They are really busy with work and travel at the moment"

Reality, aunty vie has had to flea wife beating alcholic uncle raymond and we don't know where she is - and he has fled too "

A poster earlier on said they took it as a sign their parents loved them enough to care and I feel this way too. We had some pretty up and down times but they pulled out the stops at xmas.

Its like holding a ball of magic wonderment in your hand and choosing whether or not to give it to your dc, why on earth wouldn't you?

I wouldn't answe with any of your above examples Elf, tbh.