to think school can't require dd to come back in the evening for performance?

[tankerdale]

Genuinely don't know if IABU. DD is year 4. Christmas production is a play featuring mainly years 5&6, other children are required to be in a choir. Performance is 6pm on a Friday night which means dropping dd at 5.15 and collecting about 8.15 or going to watch. Dd has end of term-it is, is ryb down and doesn't want to do it. I have two younger children, youngest is 1 and DH isn't reliably back home til 8.30pm so it's really impractical for me to watch or to drive and drop her/collect her with the others. If she wanted to do it I'd probably try harder to make arrangements but she's adamant she doesn't want to. They've been told they have to come back for it unless there's a good reason - but aibu to say she can't come because of practicalities? They can't require it can they?

Empress, a letter from the school a couple of weeks beforehand to make parents aware of the evening performance would have been useful.

Exactly Wheres, then everyone would know where they were, parents could be clear on what they could commit to and teachers could allocate parts accordingly.

It's not one afternoon a year booked off though is it? We have two children. That's 6 parents evenings a year (one a term), 6 church performances (one per term) plus various harvest festivals, singing carols, school pays etc. It's about 20 events a year at least. If that was 20 half days, that's 1/2 someone's annual leave, without kids being sick and actually wanting to take holiday. I'm glad almost all of them are in the evening, with maybe 3 during school time. Parents evenings are 5-8.30pm here. We have a carol concert Friday 7-8pm also

Yes, who knows. The older they get the more you are out. OP! Just get used to it, it's going to happen more and more!

Piglet, you are comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure teachers would prefer to be at home with their own families just as I'm sure that parents would prefer to be watching their dc's school play rather thsn be at work. But if they use precious annual leave for all the school events that take place during the year and don't have enough left to cover school holidays, that is a more serious concern to the family than a preference to be at home and not directing kids in the school play.

Schools want and need parental support and are more likely to get it if they are understanding of the pressures that some families are under wrt evening childcare availability, transport, parental time off from work etc.

Obviously, when it is possible to do something, without causing mass disruption to everyone else in the family, parents should make the effort. By the same token, where it is just too hard, schools should understand.

Schools can never please everyone!

So would all these parents really prefer there were no school plays, assemblies, harvest festivals and plays ?

Then parents would also complain.

Teachers and schools can't win.

While it is not possible to always please everybody, the solution I think, is to not have too many events where parents have to take time off work or rearrange their normal lives, finding extra chi
ldcare etc. So Christmas play and parents evenings are fine but class assemblies, events where parents are invited to spend the morning in their dc's classroom, harvest festivals etc could be scaled right back. This would reduce pressure on teachers (who I do think have enough to do already), reduce pressure on parents and stop kids from feeling left out when their mum and dad cannot be there all the time.
Sometimes there is an expectation that parents can drop everything and do what the school asks, which is unrealistic.

But I've seen posts on here by parents moaning that they want to see sports days, class assemblies etc. You suggest scaling them back but other people want them! Who do schools listen to?

I'm amazed by how many people say 'DH should rearrange his work'- not everybody can do this

Not everyone can. But often it doesn't even occur to the DH that they could take some role in childcare and that's why people ask the question. As many other MN threads show, there is still an expectation (and especially by schools) that mums are the main care-givers.

Given prior notice, many men can take time off, just as many women can.

My - but even with Dh doing half. It's a lot of time off. Some events like parents evening we both want to go to. Because ours are 5-8.30pm Dh and I can both attend and kids come with us and read outside room. If parents evenings were 3-6pm only one of us would take time off and swap at next event. Surely it's better that both parents can attend

A 1 year old is completely portable also.

I had the opposite problem this year. Y1 nativity only in the daytime and strictly no younger siblings allowed. DH's job means that he absolutely cannot just take a day off, often it isn't possible even with notice. We have no other family so nobody to have my toddler so I didn't get to see my 5yr old in his nativity.

I completely get that Recep/ Y1 are too little to cope with eve performances but they out it in over 3 afternoons. Surely one could accommodate siblings?

And whilst we're at it, please can schools stop with their 'grandparent day'

Toddlers would (and do, when they are allowed) ruin it for everyone.

Nobody wants some other parents' 2 year old refusing to sit still, refusing to be quiet, and possibly crying, shouting etc.

(not a criticism, just a job description for toddlers!)

I wouldn't dream of taking one to a show. Of any kind.

But I'd absolutely take her out if she played up.
And what do people do then? Do they just all miss seeing their child's nativity like me? I don't have any non working friends who could have her either.

And next year she'll be 4 but still not allowed in and ds will be Y2 so will have a main part. So unless DH can be here, I'll miss it again. DH cannot control when he can be off even if he gave months of notice.

Vintage, I think if everybody was in my position then schools would try to accommodate rather than have only 10 parents turn up. But most people seem to have family.

Babbles and siblings welcome at our school for everything. Most things are in the evenings as mentioned as usually everyone brings younger children still. It's great as generally most parents free in evenings and children can come so no babysitter needed.
Those with babies usually sit near back so can sneak out if they cry. For parents evenings the school library is open and supervised for all children to be left in (small babies just go in with parents and sit on lap 15 mins ).
It's a school, they understand children aren't silent

^Toddlers would (and do, when they are allowed) ruin it for everyone.

Nobody wants some other parents' 2 year old refusing to sit still, refusing to be quiet, and possibly crying, shouting etc.^

I'm inclined to agree, but others are castigating op for not wanting to take her one year old to sit through a play roughly twice as log as the average school performance.

Dora for next year, get together with the pta (or other parents) and organise a creche during the play.

No, they can't require it, but I think that at this age she should be able to manage one late Friday night. Showing commitment and not letting other people down is important. Of course, if she is really not up to it or you really can't manage it, then that is another matter. Couldn't another parent who is going to watch/pick-up drop her off for you?

I would take her. I am faced with a similar situation next week, ds2 (17mo) will be doiing some evening to-ing and fro-ing as dh is at work that evening. DS1 is doing a concert on the thurs and nativity on the fri. It is a bit logistically vexing ( i am finishing work early both days to enable this all) but we will survive. I feel a responsibility to ds, school to make sure he can do his bit. In the concert this is just some group singing thing they are all in.

It's interesting about how many events people are expected to attend.

I have noticed a different approach with private schools. Everything is laid out in the calendar at least a term in advance. School daytime events are carefully limited in number which require parental attendance or involvement. So there is an acceptance that parents like to get involved and it is beneficial too.....but there isn't over kill or huge demands on the paying parent. This is to accommodate working parents, although actually the majority of mums don't work.

There are lots of evening things. So, parents evening all run from 6, most shows will be evening events. There is a lot of expectation of the staff to be present in the evening at school. It is absolutely expected that children will attend whatever they are involved in, whether that is Saturday sport or an evening concert or play. It is up to parents to choose whether to go or not.

And apart from the very occasional child absence, children do attend and parents make it happen, however many kids they might have. Perhaps it is something to do with paying and valuing the service you have provided, but I have rarely heard much moaning about the number of things the kids need to attend outside school, or about the inconvenience of getting them there. Shock horror.....perhaps parents are glad that their kids are getting these opportunities!

I'm a secondary drama teacher. We always send letters home at the start of a project and get permission slips from parents. It seems odd to me if primary schools aren't doing this.

At primary it is just assumed that everyone will allow them to take part. However, at our DS' school the times for the performances are announced at the start of the school year (at least, unless there's another play later in the year we don't know about).

DS has been in the nativity play and has had a "unique" part as in, it was not very challenging but since he is only 4, I bet they'd be pushed to train up another child to do it and/or train the others in his group to do something slightly different.

But if he was sick, they'd manage.

I'm sorry I haven't read every post but I'm not sure why a) you can't leave her at after school club till the time of the performance and b) your DH can't pick her up, if the school are informed he will be late (and if they are told he'll arrive at 8.30, and say no they can't keep her till then, that would be a very good reason not to send her).
Or take her yourself and ask a friend to bring her home.

I think she'll manage the tiredness with some adrenalin having been in the other performances, it's just the logistics. I agree re not keeping the other children up for it!

Completely up to you. School will be saying this because, of course, if nobody turned up it wouldn't be good. Have they sent home a slip to see who can make it? My son isn't a main part in his so I'm going to the afternoon performance but not taking him back for the evening one as he doesn't want to and my daughter who is a main part has hers on the same night so we're going to that.