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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

child pointed toy gun at me

493 replies

morningtoncrescent62 · 03/12/2016 14:14

I know that telling off/not telling off other people's children has been done many times on AIBU. But genuinely not sure whether I was in the wrong here. On the bus this morning, woman got on with two children aged about 5, dressed up, obviously excited about going somewhere. One of the children was dressed as a cowboy, complete with toy gun. I'll admit I hate seeing children playing with guns, but I know not everyone feels the same. They sat behind and across the aisle from me and I was reading a book and trying not to be distracted - they were fairly noisy but not unreasonably so in the circumstances.

A few stops before I was getting off I looked up to find the child with the toy gun pointing it at me and pulling the trigger repeatedly. The woman hadn't seen as she was rootling about in her bag. So I said to the child, not sharply but firmly, 'Please don't point your gun at me, it isn't very nice'. The woman looked up and apologised. Then she took the child on her lap for a cuddle and started a loud conversation with the other one about how adults sometimes talk to children instead of the adult who is with them and this is bad and wrong. Which is OK if it's her position, but nothing at all about how sometimes when you point guns at people and pretend to shoot them they don't like it and they ask you not to. I was tempted to say to her that if her child was too young to be asked by strangers not to point his toy gun at them, then he was too young to be allowed to play with it in a public place - but I was about to get off the bus so I didn't.

So, MN jury, WIBU to speak directly to the child?

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 06/12/2016 14:37

Hardly, Catkind. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you choose to be upset by.

bumsexatthebingo · 06/12/2016 14:40

But then how would that square with me teaching my child that if they don't like looking something they don't have to look at it? When you have multiple children you are forever be getting 'X is looking at me funny' to which I say - don't look at them then. Perhaps I should be removing the child doing the 'funny looking' so as not to cause offence to the other? Do we really want to be teaching our kids that they should do whatever anyone asks of them - however unreasonable?

bumsexatthebingo · 06/12/2016 14:43

What would the op have done for eg if the child or parent weren't comfortable with her turning around and looking at them? Would they get to dictate where she looks?

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 14:45

Funny, isn't it? People who are involved with real guns always have very strict rules about guns, even toy guns, never being pointed at anyone.

But people are fighting for the inalienable, god given right for a child to point a toy gun at a stranger in a bus and pretend to kill them. I can't decide whether it's because they think their children should be allowed to do anything they want, or whether it's a "political correctness gone mad" thing. Like all the people who rush to defend gollywogs, or to oppose Ms.

Baylisiana · 06/12/2016 14:48

So true Bertrand

Gottagetmoving · 06/12/2016 14:56

But people are fighting for the inalienable, god given right for a child to point a toy gun at a stranger in a bus and pretend to kill them.I can't decide whether it's because they think their children should be allowed to do anything they want, or whether it's a "political correctness gone mad" thing

It is because they think children have imaginations and like to play and as adults we should be able to cope with that.
I think OP was a bit over sensitive but the women with the child did not have to go on to say about people talking to children instead of the parent,..she could have said that to OP directly if it bothered her.

DioneTheDiabolist · 06/12/2016 15:01

But the football strip is offensive to many people. So much so that some premises refuse entry to anyone wearing them, so it's not just me. Should I say something?

Or, what about if I sit beside an adult with a gollywog pin on their bag and when they're getting off the bus say "excuse me mrs." What to do then?Shock It's a fucking minefield!

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 15:03

"It is because they think children have imaginations and like to play and as adults we should be able to cope with that."

Of course children have imaginations and like to play. But why should they be allowed to play "killing strangers"?

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 15:05

"Or, what about if I sit beside an adult with a gollywog pin on their bag and when they're getting off the bus say "excuse me mrs." What to do then?shock It's a fucking minefield!"

No it isn't. And you know that perfectly well because you're not stupid. So no need for me to explain it to you.

BathshebaSnowflakeStone · 06/12/2016 15:08

My kids don't point toy weapons at strangers. I've never had to tell them not to. They're too busy winding each other up.

Gottagetmoving · 06/12/2016 15:09

Of course children have imaginations and like to play. But why should they be allowed to play "killing strangers

They are not playing killing strangers. They are playing killing whoever you are in their imagination...a monster...an alien... whatever.
They are not adults pretending to kill you personally.
Have you ever got involved in imaginative play with a child?

Insidevoice · 06/12/2016 15:25

If I saw any of my sons pointing a toy gun (or even two fingers pretending to have a gun) at a stranger on a bus I would tell them to pack it in. Pointing is rude, full stop.

There is one of me and three of them, I welcome appropriate help from strangers on public transport!

So for me, YADNBU.

Floggingmolly · 06/12/2016 15:47

Nobody "opposes" Ms. Some people just refuse to be offended by being called Mrs. Can you honestly not see the difference?

DioneTheDiabolist · 06/12/2016 15:52

Yeah, your right Bert, it's not a minefield at all.

When I use public transport I accept that I will be sharing my bus with people who are different to me. I take my seat and get off at my destination without fuss, without needing to tell off 5yo children who are accompanied by their parents, or children wearing football strips, anyone who calls me Mrs or adults who spend their money in ways that could be damaging. Because it is none of my business.

Gosh, that was easy.Smile

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 16:00

"When I use public transport I accept that I will be sharing my bus with people who are different to me. I take my seat and get off at my destination without fuss, without needing to tell off 5yo children who are accompanied by their parents, or children wearing football strips, anyone who calls me Mrs or adults who spend their money in ways that could be damaging. Because it is none of my business."

Absolutely. Unless one of them does something to you that you don't like. Then you can also choose to ignore. Or intervene in any of a number of ways. Including asking them not to do it.

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 16:02

"Nobody "opposes" Ms. Some people just refuse to be offended by being called Mrs. Can you honestly not see the difference?"

Yes I can. Of course. But there are plenty of threads where people do oppose Ms. And are very rude about people who choose to use it.

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 16:05

"They are not playing killing strangers. They are playing killing whoever you are in their imagination...a monster...an alien... whatever."

I'm not happy with being part of killing games, full stop. Even if they are pretending I'm an alien.

Tropezienne · 06/12/2016 16:10

I agree Gottaget it's boys imaginary play and that involves conflict and imaginary violence. They are children and they don't understand killing in its reality. To them it means to 'get' someone like they do when playing 'chat et à la souris' (English term escapes me) in the playground.

I think you are worrying too much OP.

catkind · 06/12/2016 16:11

Flogging, not me personally, but yes, it is generally considered good manners not to do things that might offend people, even if only a small group are bothered by it. I am not offended by loads of words/terms that might bother some people, as I see language as being more about intention; nonetheless I make great efforts to avoid anything other people have told me offends them. And I would certainly tell my children to avoid things that might inadvertently bother people. You don't have to agree with it being offensive. "Please don't point that at strangers, some people don't like it."

Bingo, being looked at is a normal part of being on public transport, having guns pointed at you isn't, so that's not really comparable. Though if the mum didn't want to be looked at, she could have asked her kids to play quietly, then OP would likely not have noticed she was their target in the first place.

Gottagetmoving · 06/12/2016 16:12

'Im not happy with being part of killing games, full stop. Even if they are pretending I'm an alien

Games are not real. You do know that? Even children know it is pretend. If they didn't they would grow up and really kill people...but they don't.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 06/12/2016 16:12

But the OP didn't say, 'Please don't point your gun at me because I don't like it.' She imposed her arbitrary value system on the child by saying, 'It isn't very nice'.
Since the OP hadn't interacted with the child in any way before that, the OP didn't even know if the child was shooting at her or what the child was pretending to fire or, in short, anything about the game the child was playing.
The OP saw, interpreted it as an adult and then felt the need to share her subjective value system with the child.

pigsDOfly · 06/12/2016 16:13

Is a child of five really playing at 'killing' anyone?

He's pointing a toy gun, and making a noise perhaps and doing what his friends or people in films or on television do with guns, but does he really think he is pretending to kill someone.

Do most five year old children really understand the concept of shooting and killing another human being?

I find it hard to believe that that child on the bus was actually thinking to himself that he would really like to kill the OP, and that he would, if only his pesky gun were real.

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 16:21

It is interesting that people who are involved with real guns tend to have very strict rules about pointing guns-real or toy- at anyone.

And, actually, yes. I do think many 5 year olds do have an understanding of killing and death.

Are there any pretend games you would want to curtail or does anything go?

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2016 16:24

"And I would certainly tell my children to avoid things that might inadvertently bother people. You don't have to agree with it being offensive. "Please don't point that at strangers, some people don't like it." "

Absolutely. I am an atheist and have no problem at all with blasphemy. But I have always stopped my children from using even the most mild blasphemous expressions in public because someone might overhear and not like it. Basic good manners, in my book.

juniorcakeoff · 06/12/2016 16:25

IME children who pretend to shoot total strangers are often obnoxious little horrors. Stick to shooting blood relatives only kids.