Partner on wards after birth - part 2!

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Wanted to continue this discussion as someone asked about stats re impact of visitors on wards.

I doubt there's stats anywhere (can't find anything with a quick Google anyway) but ask yourselves, why are visiting times the NHS over generally kept to a few hours a day? Because it's disruptive for the ward and patients need rest, and it can be a huge infection prevention risk. This is no different for maternity.

Original Thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2790704-About-partners-on-the-ward-after-childbirth

Oh, give over, Bluesky. People misrepresented what the OP said,whether wilfully or not (to help those without a 'previous page' feature on their MN, it was Just say - you haven't got a compromise because you're selfish and want your way.)

OP did not say that having a partner in the hospital is inherently selfish - rather that a lack of willingness to compromise (whether real or only perceived on her part) is.

Haranguing her to answer a question on the basis you thought she said something along those lines - what's the point of that?

But that answer doesn't make sense. Who is going to be the judge of what is carefully considered but thinks they need their partner overnight and who is being selfish?! Where would you draw the line? The first paragraph describes my situation to an absolute T, but you still think I'm a selfish cunt!

temporary you've said nothing to make me think that you give a flying fig about other women's feelings. You've completely dismissed mine as dramatic and hysterical (your words). You just want your way with zero compromise. You believe your needs are more than others. From that I take that you don't care about other women's needs.

What is absolutely clear from all this is that you can't please all the people, all the time - and too many women are having a totally unacceptable experience. Despite all the rancour on this thread, I really do wish all good things for cherry and everyone else who is having a baby soon. May they have none of these experiences

Then you really didn't read a lot of my posts. Where I said repeatedly that given the horrible choice of upsetting someone by having your DP there and upsetting your baby and yourself by not, I would regretfully choose the latter.

And if someone needs her partner there, she had a difficult birth and knows that some may not like it, but she doesn't feel she could cope without (so neither but a more likely scenario), is she selfish then?

Who is going to be the judge of what is carefully considered but thinks they need their partner overnight and who is being selfish?!

I'm not suggesting that admittance of men is based on a selfish-ometer. I was answering a question asked by blue

Where would you draw the line? The first paragraph describes my situation to an absolute T, but you still think I'm a selfish cunt!

When did I call you a cunt making stuff up yet again.
I have said TIME AND TIME AGAIN and I cannot for the life of me understand why it's not computing with you - I do not think you're selfish for wanting your DH there at that time. Your attitude on this thread and the way you don't give a shite about other people's valid feelings is why you're selfish.

Please for the love of god stop saying I said you're selfish for wanting support. I don't FFS can't you read?! Maybe try the using your finger technique you suggested to me if you're struggling

But that answer doesn't make sense. Who is going to be the judge of what is carefully considered but thinks they need their partner overnight and who is being selfish?! Where would you draw the line?

Well, quite. That's why even handed policies that balance the needs of all women and babies are needed, set and enforced by the NHS (including codes of conduct that are strictly enforced where partners stay overnight), and that absolutely does not take a one size fits all approach.

Because pitting women with valid reasons for having totally opposite positions on this issue is never going to have a satisfactory outcome, because a compromise that doesn't involve changing the way some maternity wards are run isn't possible. None of us can hope to be objective when our own births are involved.

ANSwer my question first blue. I'm not a performing monkey obliged to answer you as Jassy pointed out (I suspect like temporary you'll only twist what I say anyway)

We've got the wrong enemy here. We really need to petition for better care.

AGRee, hence my message to MNHQ.

I'd still be interested to hear your answer to my question though

Argh. It's like talking to a brick wall. How can I not have been selfish for having him there at the time but be selfish for sticking up for that decision on here??? That makes NO SENSE.

The problem is Cherry, you answer based on completely unlikely scenarios, but not the most obvious, which is the question I've posed. That makes you the twister, not me.

You have said that its not selfish to want them there for support, but in having them there for support they disregard others and that's selfish. That's a paraphrase, but seems to be what you are saying.

From that, I gather that you don't think its selfish for someone to want support, but is selfish for them to have it. You keep saying we misrepresent you, but you actually won't answer the question.

Blue, can I switch it to you? Do you think it's selfish for a person who has experienced sexual violence at the hands of men to prefer not to share a postnatal ward overnight with men who are strangers to her?

Neither position is inherently selfish or unselfish; where it becomes so is an unwillingness (as some have shown on this thread) to weigh their own needs against the needs of others.

I think in these situations we can all be a little bit selfish, tbh. Being willing to acknowledge that others have good reasons for holding their positions is a good start, as is focusing on how we might be able to improve things for everyone, rather than why the other side is More Wrong.

Fgs can you not just drop it?

Cherry I wish you all the best with your imminent arrival and I hope very much his health is fine.

From that, I gather that you don't think its selfish for someone to want support, but is selfish for them to have it.

OK, for the hard of reading, what she's saying is:
It is not selfish to want or need support. WHAT IS SELFISH is disregarding other people's wants or needs as trivial and not worth considering because yours must be more important.

This is not difficult, folks.

Totally get the thing about women who've been abused by men. Thing is- how are others meant to know that someone's been abused?? I can't imagine the woman would feel very comfortable telling anyone. Even if she told a nurse, wouldnt it be a breach of confidentiality to tell others?
As I've said before we cannot accommodate everyone's wishes. There just isn't the money to build enough wards to cater to everyone.

Argh. It's like talking to a brick wall. How can I not have been selfish for having him there at the time but be selfish for sticking up for that decision on here??

I said you're selfish for your attitude towards others. Not for sticking up for yourself. And yes, brick wall springs to mind

There just isn't the money to build enough wards to cater to everyone.

Why do new wards necessarily need to be built, rather than different wards/rooms/bays being primarily given over to those who want partners staying and those who don't (or whose partners cannot stay) as a short term solution? It may not work perfectly in practice, as I said before, but surely better than an inadequate one-size-fits-all approach?

I actually do think that it's reasonable that, as hospitals and maternity units get refurbished that a standard is set of what 'good' looks like - ie mainly single ensuite rooms, which some hospitals have managed.

Where is my attitude selfish??? All I've ever done is explain why I needed my partner there as would any woman in my position, I believe!

blue I did answer the question, I'd like it if you answered mine? Although I think Jassy probably summed it up.

Handbag - in short, yes I'm going to stop now, I suspect I'll look at this in the morning and feel silly for getting het up! I think all our time would be best spent discussing postnatal care experiences and how they can be better for all women. I said I'd start another thread and I will!

On the other hand, I was in a private room and when my husband went home for a kip I had no help what so ever. The buzzer went unanswered, I couldn't get out of bed so wet myself, no access to water or food or pain relief and no help with a baby. It was hell.

But I'd take that any day over a ward with men on it. The ward was so tiny and utterly awful.

Actually the whole experience was awful. I've refused to have any more until we're in a position for fully private care.

Jassy agree, I pointed out earlier that I don't personally think the NHS needs more funding or refurbs to deliver better care. Plenty of maternity units are rated outstanding by CQC - in Trusts that have financial difficulties and staffing shortages. A good place to start would be to look at where they are and what they do so well and how we can replicate elsewhere.

I didn't mean you in particular cherry

If men aren't allowed to sleep in postnatal wards then women wouldn't have to disclose issues around past abuse or assault that are exacerbated by their presence.

I'd think where men are allowed to stay perhaps some victims of abuse and assault maybe spend all night awake and frightened in addition to dealing with birth injuries, recovering from surgery and looking after their newborn. Maybe some research is due to see the impact of men staying on postnatal wards on women's mental health, positive and negative.

different wards/rooms/bays being primarily given over to those who want partners staying and those who don't (or whose partners cannot stay) as a short term solution? It may not work perfectly in practice, as I said before, but surely better than an inadequate one-size-fits-all approach?

I suggested that very thing (it feels like a million posts ago) only to be shouted down by Cherry et all, and told that 'my side' (I.e. women who need their partners to care for their baby post birth) was unwilling to compromise. I think Blueskyrain suggested it too, actually, though it's been a long discussion and easy to forget who exactly said what.

In general I agree with you.

I don't want any woman to suffer because she is forced on a ward with men overnight against her will. I also don't want any woman to suffer because she is forced whilst exhausted in pain and incapacitated try to care for a newborn alone whilst surrounded by strangers and the baby's own father isn't allowed in for twelve hours.