About partners on the ward after childbirth?

[hullabaloo234]

Booked in for ELCS for breech baby.

Just going through this week's post and find a letter from the hospital about what to do/not do prior to the op, what time to arrive etc.

At the back is a letter for my "support person", with a list of do's and don'ts for their stay on the ward with me after my section.

Sorry, WTF?! I love DP dearly but not a chance do I want him or more importantly a load of other blokes on the ward.

I was already going to discharge myself the following morning but was realistic about staying a bit longer if needed- bollocks to that I am definitely leaving as soon as my catheter is out and I can walk again!

Am I the only person who thinks this is really bloody unreasonable?!

I agree with the petition, but I do think it should just be on the issue of poor care, not whether men should or shouldn't be allowed to stay. The vast majority of women would support better care, but many wouldn't support no overnighting from men. To maximise support, let's keep this tight and care focused.

Blue that is exactly what happened to me. The night midwife accepted that she had been unable to answer my buzzer and I had nearly died because of that. The second night I hemeraged he got me help. I'm sure she wouldn't have answered again and I would have died. So in the end our complaint was based on poor medical treatment and no staffing, not that it seemed to help (my notes were compleatly innaccurate to boot).

The answer is still to improve care though, it allways will be. I would much rather have had decent care than my husband present.

Massive eyeroll at cherry wanting to campaign to prevent other people FROM HAVING THE EXACT SAME SUPPORT SHE WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO HAVE JUST BECAUSE HER HOSPITAL HAPPENED TO HAVE THE SPACE TO LET HER STAY IN THE DELIVERY ROOM.

You might feel differently if you have another baby and you are helpless and distraught at being unable to help the baby in the middle of the night because your partner has been sent home.

To say that women who feel they need help in this situation are selfish is just mind blowing. It seems to be the women who had a bad time in labour who say they couldn't have coped without their partners there. But it's not a reflection of their experience, oh no. It's their selfishness!!! Similarly the HCPs on this thread who have said that their hospitals did surveys and there was a positive response in favour of letting fathers stay - well, all those women who responded must be selfish too, eh?

Hopefully one day there will be enough money in the system to let people have private rooms for 24 hours each, if they want it. At the moment, this is simply not the case. And whilst the stats make for deeply unpleasant reading, for me personally, whatever the % of having a dodgy bloke on the ward, it would still have been 100% that DD and I would have been in a bad way without DP being there.

Just been having an extra look at some of the posts on here about abusive men being rude to other mums and bullying midwives in to going against protocol etc, Yes there are some horrible folk out there, some real idiots, BUT they are in the minority, they are a very small minority, you cant put your foot down about the minority of horrible idiots when the majority just want to support their partners who could be struggling terrible after birth, and again you cant stop it just because you dont want it.
The key here is they have policies in place covering, privacy, the dos and donts so people know how they need to be respectful and what would happen if they werent and the minority are then removed if they do become abusive etc, most would simply not even behave like that anyway as the majority just want to support partners etc. , like i say the horrible idiots are thankfully the minority, why should the majority be punished out of fear of the nasty idiots.

Can I repeat from way way up thread, that my local hospital trialled partners staying overnight on the large curtained-bay ward for a period of months. They went back to 10am-10pm visiting hours for partners, because feedback from women during that time was that they felt too vulnerable. I find it interesting that the trial had a negative response.

I'm not trying to do that at all. How is characterising your option as being in favour of women only spaces 'making things up' when you've clearly stated I believe for a good portion of the day/night postanagal wards should be women only spaces.

You said I wanted to campaign for postnatal Ward to be women only spaces. You completely fabricated this, unless you can point out where I said this? When I said I wanted to campaign for better maternity services you used the terms "no you don't". I really don't like being told what I think especially when it's clearly wrong.

You do want to get rid of men (for a good proportion/12 hours a day) rather than give women genuine privacy

Yes I do want men away some of the day and have stated why, I'm not going to repeat myself. You CANNOT have proper privacy with non-patients 3 feet away from you 24/7

When women on this thread have expressed that they don't have a problem with men around them on a post natal ward, they are told they are being selfish and not thinking of how other women might feel. But apparently it's ok for you to dismiss how other women feel about strange women around them, because you 'don't see the problem'.

This wasn't in response to my comment but women are actually patients and need to be there, men don't. However for one I'm not deluded enough to think that women are always respectful of others in wards (people on here have mentioned mum's on phones at 2am for example) but this is a different issue to tackle than the behaviour of a visitor who can and sometimes should be ejected.

I agree with the petition, but I do think it should just be on the issue of poor care, not whether men should or shouldn't be allowed to stay.

I agree and in my report to MN I put this, that although people differ about the men staying thing we have one common belief - that postnatal care is shoddy and something needs to be done. And this is what needs to be campaigned for. MN already had a stab at campaigning for men in postnatal ward and nipped it in the bud following the responses

Massive eyeroll at cherry wanting to campaign to prevent other people FROM HAVING THE EXACT SAME SUPPORT SHE WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO HAVE JUST BECAUSE HER HOSPITAL HAPPENED TO HAVE THE SPACE TO LET HER STAY IN THE DELIVERY ROOM

Massive eye roll at you not reading the thread properly

A) I don't want to campaign to have postnatal wards as women only. I have stated this several times

B) i said as far back as my first post that I don't have a problem with men in delivery rooms staying overnight, in fact I thought it was an NHS wide policy, but they shouldn't stay overnight on wards with their women

To say that women who feel they need help in this situation are selfish is just mind blowing.

I'm getting bored of repeating myself
to you temporary but here it goes against - I didn't say this, I said it's selfish to not give a fuck when you know other women are uncomfortable with your DH sleeping 3 feet from them, as long as you are ok.

It seems to be the women who had a bad time in labour who say they couldn't have coped without their partners there. But it's not a reflection of their experience, oh no. It's their selfishness!!!

Oh yawn at the fabrication - when have I said men shouldn't be the during labour? STOP extrapolating!

Similarly the HCPs on this thread who have said that their hospitals did surveys and there was a positive response in favour of letting fathers stay - well, all those women who responded must be selfish too, eh?

As a HCP pointed out earlier they ask "would you like your DH to stay with you" and many say yes - but they don't ask "would you be happy with 5 male strangers sleeping in the same room as you" - I suspect it would have a different kind of answer! But that's jut my opinion

What are the staff actually doing when they are unable to answer buzzers or assist people needing the toilet. From some of these accounts it appears that the only people on the ward are the mothers, babies and partners. If there is an abusive man or or one who wants to sleep in the mother's bed, then security should be called if they won't co-operate. The same with mobile phones; they should be off at night.

Has anybody ever experienced one mother who has just given birth causing any harm to any mother or baby on a post-natal ward??

I have described abusive comments from other women, as have others. Still, doesn't count if it's not from a man, eh?

Women need privacy from men at times where they're vulnerable and bleeding from their vaginas.
Even if some men weren't sexually violent, this would still be true. The risk of being perved on is a side issue to the basic need and right for privacy from people of the opposite sex.

Had emergency section although cat 2 so literally was waiting to go in as my labouring had failed. No danger to me or baby. I didn't get to go in til 2am. Of course that time my husband wasn't allowed on ward. It was my second section. I was totally a mess I couldn't move wasn't coherent. I kept telling my midwife my baby wasn't well they ignored me. On the ward I darent put baby in her cot: her nostrils were flaring I was so weak post section pitch black no help. God I wished my DH was there in the end I shouted for the midwife she then told me to stop being silly. Two hours later no sleep and delirious I vomited everywhere and screamed again this time they looked at me and looked at baby grabbed the baby from me and rushed her to scbu I was right she couldn't breath. 2 weeks later we were discharged. I was back in theatre. Baby needed lots of help. To this day I know if my DH was there he would have called for help he would have been able to go to the nurses station. I was deeply disturbed by my experience. Partners are needed

Butterflies, the difference is between patients who are there because they have to be, and visitors who don't. Clearly the patients are all women, and the visiting partners overwhelmingly men.

I would imagine an abusive patient might eventually be moved to isolate them from other patients.

Helpme9
You didn't need your partner there.
You needed the medical staff to listen to you, not to dismiss your concerns as hysterics. You were very ill and you were neglected. You were not given basic medical care. That is the issue here.
I'm sorry to single you out and I'm sorry for your terrible experience. I'm not attacking you, I just think your case proves the main issue in the thread.

Better staffing and healthcare is what's needed.

Cherry. You are having to repeat yourself because you aren't listening. You are so puffed up with self-righteousness that you're not getting it.

Not everybody gets to stay in a delivery room overnight. Do you really not understand this simple point?! Most people are wheeled straight back onto the ward. According to you, at some point on this minute long ride on a bed down the corridor, they magically become selfish for wanting support. When their baby is not even an hour old and they are still immobile from the anaesthetic etc. But it's ok for YOU to want/have support, because YOUR hospital had space for you to stay in a delivery room. Not quite sure why you can't see that most people didn't get that luxury. But preeeeettttyy sure that you would have felt very differently if you hadn't.

You really seem to expect women to put strangers' needs above their own, and their own babies. Maybe you are really Saint Cherry, in which case good for you. My DP wasn't really sleeping "3 ft" from anyone, btw. He was up and down all night with a baby who simply would not sleep if she wasn't being held. If he had not been there, my options would have been to sit up, immobilised for a while and then v weak and groggy post C-section, holding her, or to leave her in her cot to cry. Great. That's lovely support for ALL WOMEN you're advocating there...

Again, a great example of you not reading what I said. I said, it's the women who had a shit time in labour who wanted their partners there afterwards. Not during. The whole point of this thread is about afterwards! Why would I suddenly start blithering on about during?!

I disagree. People know that if their partner can stay, everyone else's partner can stay. They're not stupid. It's a shit situation, but it's the lesser of two evils for lots of people. By painting them all as selfish and men as vile beasts, you risk doing your own cause a great deal of damage.

Insisting that having men stay overnight is the answer only works for women who have partners who can stay over. It does nothing for the safety of the women and babies who have no one to stay and help them,especially if hospitals cut staffing numbers further because of the fathers staying overnight. Mothers without overnight partners would then be at greater risk.

After my first EMCS I was on a 4 bed bay. Most of the patients and their partners were fine about from 2 of the men that passed through. The first slept in his wife's hospital bed when she was mobilising after her section, wandered about topless ( he was too hot, you see) and pissed all over the patient toilet seat and floor in the toilet for our bay. Another guy who's partner was in for monitoring demanded and received a sex act from her behind the curtain for their bay.

Better staffing and healthcare is what's needed.

Not one person is disputing this. The issue here is, as that is not happening - and I think the eyewatering costs plus lack of space in hospitals make it clear why - what we do at the moment.

Should we impose a blanket ban that would make lots of people unhappy?

Should we roll out a partners policy that would make lots of people unhappy?

Should we instigate a system where two hospitals close to one another have alternate policies so that people can choose as far as possible?

Should we charge say £1,000 per birth which would generate £22,000,000 a day to pay for additional support?

Because what is not going to happen is the government funding the NHS to provide private rooms or enough support for everyone so that their partners can go home!

Those of you that want partners there 24 hrs, what solution can you think of for women who don't/can't have a partner or another person there? Will they just have to put up with this poor standard of care and be put at risk? Nothing can be done to improve their situation?

I have described abusive comments from other women, as have others. Still, doesn't count if it's not from a man, eh?
Sorry I have tried to read the whole 10 pages but I missed where a mother on the ward was abusive or caused harm to another mother or baby.

Would you mind telling me where these posts are??

I would like to see some real stats on whether having partners present actually reduces the number of staff. Is this sort of info accessible?

I totally agree that in the long-term the solution is better care on the wards, but at the moment that isn't happening - would it really get things moving more to stop everyone from having their partners there? Would that really motivate the government to release more funding for maternity care?

Temporary isn't the situation where partners can be present 12 hours a day (and be in SCBU/NICU, if relevant, for 24hrs a day) a good compromise? Women can be supported by their partners for half the day, and then other women can have a respite from this overnight. I would also suggest that partners can stay for maybe 2 hours or so if the woman is moved to the postnatal ward outside of visiting hours, perhaps longer at the discretion of midwives. Maybe in a side room to begin with if available.

Persian - I didn't put it earlier in the thread, but I saw several of the mothers on the ward being very disruptive. Constant phone calls and ringing phones were an issue, as was the loud sweary woman opposite me who hissed angrily at her neighbour because her suitcase had slipped slightly under the curtain into "her space". In fact, it was her husband who apologised to the neighbour.

My Conclusion: Some people are just dicks, regardless of whether they are mothers or fathers!