to think this is an inappropriately harsh punishment?

[whoseafraidofnaomiwolf]

I'm not sure whether I'm being a bit PLB about this situation (I suspect I might be) so am coming to the wider community of wise women for advice.

Background: PLB DS3(13) is generally a good child, well mannered, bright, funny, kind, and conscientious with his school work. He's popular with the other kids and teachers alike. Not a stealth boast (though I know it sounds that way) he's just one of those children. Yesterday at school he and his friends were mucking about at lunch time - one friend was pinching crisps and then the others would 'chase' him to get them back - all very good natured (I'm told) and within the realm of normal boyish horseplay. In this theme, one friend went to 'run away' and DS grabbed at him to stop him. He grabbed the strap of his backpack. Friend was halted in his tracks, staggered back then fell back and hit the back of head on a wooden bench causing a cut and a nasty bump. DS was horrified, apologised immediately and took friend to school first aid where he was cared for and his parents were called to take him home. DS was asked to write a report on his part in the incident.

Later yesterday afternoon my DH got a phonemail from school and I received an email to say that there had been an incident and that the school was giving DS a 'gross misconduct' for assault of another pupil. This is the most severe form of punishment the school gives before exclusion, it will stay on his school record until he leaves, and involves spending a day in isolation.

We have spoken to DS about this incident in stern terms. We've discussed actions and consequences and DS has messaged his friend to apologise and ensure that he is well (friend went home after incident). Friend is well and messaged back that he hoped DS hadn't got into trouble as it wasn't his fault. I've messaged friends Mum to acknowledge incident and express apologies & assurances that DS has been spoken to.

DS has never been in any sort of trouble before, not even a detention. I've warned him that he may just have to suck-up the punishment, but inside I am cross at how the school has handled this and escalated boisterous behaviour into something verging on criminal. AIBU to think that this is too extreme, and that it would be more appropriate for the school to be issuing him a warning - which the school behaviour policy says should come in the form of a 'yellow card' or 'red card'?

DS's isolation is due to happen on Monday, AIABU to go with him to school early on Monday with the aim of discussing this with year head to try and get punishment downgraded before he does 'time' for it? If IANBU then how would you approach defending your DC in this situation?

The fact that this has happened on a Friday and they propose punishment on the following Monday doesn't help as there's no-one available over the weekend to speak to.

Ds and Dd go to the same school. They suspend for any violent incident intentional or not. Even self defence. It's in the rules, parents have to sign at the beginning of the year that you understand the policy. It was introduced after a child died at a neighbouring school.

To be honest I think you would be better to explain to your son horse play can lead to injuries.

There is a world of difference between an aggressive assault and an accidental injury as a result of horseplay. As a teacher, I think this is outrageous and should be addressed by the school more appropriately. I expect your poor son has suffered enough.

It doesn't sound right, I think you need to go in to school to fact find.
speak with head, to find out what they think happened. And show the text from the other boy. And discuss their behaviour policy. And what is required to get the most severe form of punishment and why this qualifies.

I have a son and I have to agree that if he had done something like this I would tell him he had to suck up the exclusion but I would argue against assault being on his school record. He is also a lovely, popular boy but he would need to realise that this unintended actions could have gone horribly wrong and if this were the way the school choose to 'punish' it I would back up their decision. In the big wide world we cannot go around minimising our children's actions when they have done something wrong - even unintentionally. I really do get where you are coming from and you sound as if you have raised a great son and he did all the right things after the incident. I would accept the exclusion but argue the assault which is far too harsh IMO. X

He may not have intended it to happen but he acted recklessly and caused harm. If he was an adult outside of school he very much could have been arrested and charged because he acted recklessly and cause harm to the other boy.

The issue here is the harm the accident caused to the other boy. I remember from law the hardest things to prove are attempted assault or murder anything that results in that can either be seen as intent or reckless. Even intent could be proved if a reasonable person could see the end result might happen.

Your son did not mean it but it's a huge lesson in learning actions have consequences and he is lucky his did not cause more

I think the exclusion is appropriate but the assault is absolutely ridiculous, they were clearly just horsing about.

Personally think it's v heavy handed. A stern talking to by the head and a formal apology and acknowledgement of why it dangerous to play like that would be sufficient. It was a game gone wrong and it wasn't meant maliciously. If he had been bullying this other kid and the kid and the parents had complained then ok but if everyone involved agrees it was an accident then surely just explain why it's dangerous and let their obvious shock and worry (and the injured boy's injury) should be enough.

What worries me more is the 'day in isolation!' Where does your child go to school??? Guantanamo??? That is a horrible punishment and totally unnecessary. I would definitely go in with your son and object to that. It's pretty awful as punishments go. Writing an essay in head injuries is probably way more effective.

The same general type of horseplay resulted in the death of a student at my DS1's school years ago. A group of students were playing around and one student was accidentally knocked into a locker in just such a way as to rupture an undiscovered aneurysm in his head. He died instantly. The whole group of students were suspended from school, even though it was definitely a tragic, tragic accident. There had to be consequences.

I think the isolation should stand. But I don't think a record for 'assault' should be on your son's record if all involved parties agree that there was no malice intended.

I love this 'there's no intent to harm'.

OK so I've had 2 glasses of wine tonight. I decide to take my car out with no intent to cause harm. I just fail the breathalyser when I run someone over, I can imagine the reactions on here for this type of reckless behaviour. Actions have consequences, that is the lesson that needs to be learned.

Even more bizarrely someone further up the thread said 'If they internally exclude for that what do they do if a child swears at a teacher' . So swearing at a teacher is worse than hurting another pupil? Wtaf......

As a Head of Year myself, it does sound a little OTT given your son's background. However, in a court of law 'horseplay' just doesn't stand up, so I do think a punishment, rather than a warning is important here. I would say a pre exclusion punishment is a bit OTT though and would certainly speak to the head of year on Monday. I think it's important that you inform him / her that you support the school but would welcome a short meeting prior to the punishment being served as this also allows for more detailed investigations to take place. If I had s parent meeting like this planned, I would ensure I had witness statements.

I think it's important to draw attention to the negative impact boisterous 'boyish' behaviour has on the school community as a whole here. It's not ok. It often results in injury and upset ... and at best, it results in unfocused students during lesson time.

I'm back: thanks everyone for your comments and thoughts, even some of the ...gulp...'harsher' critics. Apologies for being gone today - I've been at work all day and only just got home.

So, have read and inwardly digested everyone's posts. I never thought DS should not be punished, and I never said it wasn't his fault - it was his DF who said that. I've been clear with him from the start that he was a dick, it was his fault, and he would have to suck up the punishment, and that's still my line now.

However, I do think it's my job as his Mum to ensure the education system (and world at large) treats him as fairly as possible, and to weigh in on his side if needed. I'm not a tiger Mum - too exhausting, I've no time for that. I won't be 'storming into school' at any point - its not my style, I haven't done it over the last 16 years of having kids in education, and I don't intend to start now. I will go and meet his teachers on Tuesday and discuss why a gross misdemeanour is being applied to his record and see if it can be downgraded.

Those of you who are teachers in the system, you have my sympathy and my thanks. I know you are dealing with 30 or 600 kids or whatever number, and I only have to think about 4. But I DO have to think about those 4 - they're mine - and it's my job to stick up for them if you, or your system are not treating them well. I'd be a very poor mother if I just left them to it - surely we all know big institutions can make mistakes in their approaches and policies that can have dire and lasting consequences on individuals - what if no-one ever spoke up for their kids?

Anyway, Thanks all for your input, it was very helpful and aided my decision making enormously. I didn't always like what you said (some of you are downright nasty) but some more measured and sensible opinions really struck home (maisiemoo, ditsyprint, & SharkBrilliant to name a few) but that's what asking for opinion is about isn't it - you get the nutters mixed in along with the wise ones? Thanks one and all - gotta love Mumsnet

Sounds to me the punishment is not unreasonable, as much as a deterrent to others, but describing it as assault is clearly an overreaction.

Is the school overreacting for fear of the injured lads parents blaming them for not keeping the horseplay under control?

Grandmarmoset, absolutely. Dh is a head teacher and going by what op has said it's a complete over reaction. Apologies I'm not able to rtft (grr iPhone) but statements would be taken from all children , previous good behaviour and the immediate regret and apologies considered . If exactly how op describes yes it's ridiculous. Accidents happen !

Re 'assault'
I've just looked at my school behaviour management recording system. We have sections for recording normal misdemeanours that deserve detentions, then a separate section that goes beyond that called 'Serious misconduct' and the categories are things like 'drugs' 'truancy' 'smoking' 'racist language' 'verbal abuse towards pupil' 'verbal abuse towards teacher'
We also then have 'Inappropriate behaviour towards pupil' and 'Inappropriate behaviour towards teacher'.

I would suspect that the OP's school has a similar behaviour management system and their 'above usual sanctions' is called 'Gross Misconduct'. I expect they then had to decide a category within that and decided that 'assault' best fit the incident. If it's like our system there will also be a section to describe the incident so anyone looking would be clear what has happened.

So if you're quibbling about 'Gross misconduct' and 'assault' then you may well just be quibbling about categories on a database. I expect there isn't a category that says 'behaved like a dick, caused injury to other pupil' and 'assault' was the best fit (and TBH it was an assault, he physically grabbed and pulled the other kid).

There should be a 'behaved like a dick, caused injury to other pupil' category because that would fit the bill for a huge number of incidents at most schools.

If assault means physically grabbing and pulling another child then all playground games of tag should be banned.

Would the school have batted an eye at this game if nobody had been hurt? Would they even have known about it?

Had the boys played this or any game like this before?

If the school is serious about safety, is the playground supervised? How come the DS was the one who brought his friend to get first aid?

I wonder if the parents of the boy who hit his head went apeshit and this is why the school have reacted in this way.

I would definitely go in and talk to the deputy head in charge of disapline (in our school it's the pastoral deputy head).

mathanxiety 'playground' 'tag' this is 13 year old teenager boys, not primary school kids.

"Boyish horseplay" is a total pain in the arse at secondary schools and it can often end in tears, injury, parental complaint or a punch in the face. I've seen it all. It's not funny, and I'm glad that at least one school is seeing fit to deal with it properly when it does, as it inevitably does, end up badly.

If assault means physically grabbing and pulling another child then all playground games of tag should be banned

FGS Mathanxiety - we're talking about 13 year olds not infants!!!

Bored play or not. It was dangerous.

''An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force.''

He acted recklessly and caused an individual harm, so yes, it was assault.

As retired PW this was accident with no intention to harm. If my son I would be very aggrieved, he even helped friend back into school for help! Few would do that if feeling guilty.

It was an accident, but he did something that carried a huge risk.

A boy of about 13 pulled out my chair and I broke my coccyx as a result (it was a very solid floor). I still get pain, more than 10 years on, because of that boy.

Also, when I was at school, a group of popular lads in our year decided it'd be funny to knock some books off a shelf while I was sitting on a chair next to it. I took an encyclopaedia to the head. The mums of the boys obviously went into school, complaining that their boys were popular/sporty/academic/whatever. But they were being fucking stupid and deserved punishment.

Parents can be blind where their kids are concerned.

Few teenage boys intend to really harm their friends when they put them in a headlock, persistently take the piss out of them, call them fat, take their bag and put it in a bin. And yet it can, and does, end in injury or tears.

It doesn't stop the behaviour being totally unacceptable.

I thought we had established that you don't need intent. If you are daft and someone is injured you are punished, even if you are the sweetest person in the world who meant no harm and whose mind was full of butterflies. I am sure there are plenty of lovely drunk drivers.

Wow, I'm really surprised by this thread. I teach in a secondary (albeit a girls' one) and there would be absolutely no question that this would get a fixed term exclusion in my school. Most likely 3 days. Internal isolation would be for less serious incidents (using a mobile phone, persistent failure to follow instructions in class, defiance, rudeness etc). The whole permanent record thing is a bit strange to me though. Every detention and incident stays on our school system permanently regardless of whether it's a missed homework or a more serious incident. As far as I'm aware no one looks at it unless we were going for exclusion due to wider behaviour problems. I certainly can't imagine a one off incident being put on a reference or anything. Sometimes nice kids do silly things and get into big trouble (we had one who brought a bottle of alcohol into school and shared it with friends and got a big fixed term exclusion). I often feel bad for them when it happens as they often get disproportionately upset about it but it does them no harm to learn that reckless behaviour can have serious consequences. I doubt the permanent record thing is as bad as it sounds.