to think this is an inappropriately harsh punishment?

[whoseafraidofnaomiwolf]

I'm not sure whether I'm being a bit PLB about this situation (I suspect I might be) so am coming to the wider community of wise women for advice.

Background: PLB DS3(13) is generally a good child, well mannered, bright, funny, kind, and conscientious with his school work. He's popular with the other kids and teachers alike. Not a stealth boast (though I know it sounds that way) he's just one of those children. Yesterday at school he and his friends were mucking about at lunch time - one friend was pinching crisps and then the others would 'chase' him to get them back - all very good natured (I'm told) and within the realm of normal boyish horseplay. In this theme, one friend went to 'run away' and DS grabbed at him to stop him. He grabbed the strap of his backpack. Friend was halted in his tracks, staggered back then fell back and hit the back of head on a wooden bench causing a cut and a nasty bump. DS was horrified, apologised immediately and took friend to school first aid where he was cared for and his parents were called to take him home. DS was asked to write a report on his part in the incident.

Later yesterday afternoon my DH got a phonemail from school and I received an email to say that there had been an incident and that the school was giving DS a 'gross misconduct' for assault of another pupil. This is the most severe form of punishment the school gives before exclusion, it will stay on his school record until he leaves, and involves spending a day in isolation.

We have spoken to DS about this incident in stern terms. We've discussed actions and consequences and DS has messaged his friend to apologise and ensure that he is well (friend went home after incident). Friend is well and messaged back that he hoped DS hadn't got into trouble as it wasn't his fault. I've messaged friends Mum to acknowledge incident and express apologies & assurances that DS has been spoken to.

DS has never been in any sort of trouble before, not even a detention. I've warned him that he may just have to suck-up the punishment, but inside I am cross at how the school has handled this and escalated boisterous behaviour into something verging on criminal. AIBU to think that this is too extreme, and that it would be more appropriate for the school to be issuing him a warning - which the school behaviour policy says should come in the form of a 'yellow card' or 'red card'?

DS's isolation is due to happen on Monday, AIABU to go with him to school early on Monday with the aim of discussing this with year head to try and get punishment downgraded before he does 'time' for it? If IANBU then how would you approach defending your DC in this situation?

The fact that this has happened on a Friday and they propose punishment on the following Monday doesn't help as there's no-one available over the weekend to speak to.

As a Head of Year myself, it does sound a little OTT given your son's background. However, in a court of law 'horseplay' just doesn't stand up,

Well in the real world this wouldn't get to a court of law.

Two blokes who are friends in town on a night out messing around and one ends up with a head injury there would be no action taken.

Two blokes in town and one goes up to the other and punches him and causes a head injury = assault.

If I was the OPs mum I wouldn't try and get the punishment, the isolation downgraded......I can understand that the school want to be seen to be taking a firm line against arsing about. But I would not be happy with the term "assault" being on his record. It makes it sound intentional, like he was fighting.

It's all very well saying oh well it doesn't matter. But what if there's something else which happens in school next year? What if another kid hits him and then denies it and tries to blame the OPs son? School will see on his record that he's already got one assault on his record and be less likely to believe him? Be more likely to exclude him this time?

Yes, I think it is not assault because there was "consent" i.e. the other boy was OK with your son grabbing his bag as part of the game.
Totally different from the girl in the bus incident.

It looks like the school has been hasty. There was no time for an investigation.
I wonder where the teachers were in all of this? In our school kids aren't allowed to run around at meal times due to risk of choking and I'm surprised this wasn't stopped sooner. It looks like your son took the other boy to the nurse. Why didn't a teacher?
I think a red card is more reasonable but you will have to argue this with the school.
Why not speak with the other parent and also any other boys who were there? Also find out where the teachers were. Kids running around tend to attract attention. Someone should have seen what was going on.
This feels like an off the cuff decision. Good luck.

I think that the problem here is just that it is not an 'assault'. It was an accident. Yes, your DS was being careless, and yes, the other child could have been seriously injured. However, there is a world of difference between over excited messing about, a situation in which any of the consenting participants could have suffered injury, and an 'assault' where one child with intent causes fear and physical injury to another.
In terms of assessing culpability, and punishing, the school needs a system which differentiates between a child who accidentally hurts another in a consensual risky game, and one who deliberately sets out to hurt another. My concern would be the record of 'gross misconduct' and 'assault'. The school, quite simply, cannot record this as 'assault' because it was not an assault. It is therefore an entirely inaccurate record, and unacceptable. If I were you, I would set this out in writing, making a formal request for them to re consider. Be clear that you acknowledge that this is serious, that your son should not have done this, and you entirely accept there should be punishment. Ask them specifically to let you know what punishment would be meted out to a child who deliberately caused an injury. And specifically, what would be put on record. If there is no difference, the recording of 'gross misconduct' for assault on your son's record is clearly unfair and irrational. If you get no satisfaction, then pursue a formal complaint. Let the school know in your letter that you intend to pursue this course of action, and will not let it drop.

It's not assault but is inappropriate force/play

Oh good grief, it wasn't 'inappropriate' at all - it was an ACCIDENT.

Ah milennial snowflakes. Shit happens.

In the UK at least reckless behaviour resulting in an accident is an assault. The intent or lack of it can mitigate the punishment but it is an assault. Within a school, its common to have standard descriptors for certain types of incident - if the school classifies this incident as an assault then that is how it should be recorded.

And it should be recorded - as others have said, if its a one off incident it won't play any part in his future. However a such accidents can also be 'accidents' caused by bullying - if that is the case its the recording of the pattern which can reveal the problem when victims/friends are unable to do so.

If the school has introduced a stronger discipline policy then it will often be a response to a problem. For the policy is to work it has to be applied to all children not just other people's children. 13 is plenty old enough to know better or have to learn the hard way. Parents trying to gang up on a deputy head implementing a consistent discipline policy or endlessly making excuses for their own children as 'just something boys do' are part of the massive problem many schools have these days. A key lesson for this age to learn is to own and take responsibility for their own behaviour.

OP, I'm too late to advise you against going in without an appt on a Monday morning, however I think you should support the school in the policy and not try to get it minimised - mainly for your son's sake. A lesson learned now is a damned sight better than the lesson learned as an adult where the record would follow him around. If you want to discuss with the school then do so having arranged a time - you are more likely to get any extra info you seek by doing that than by going in at the busiest time of the week to push for his punishment to be downgraded or excused because 'boys do that'.

Oh good grief, it wasn't 'inappropriate' at all - it was an ACCIDENT

So he didn't mean to grab his friend's bag straps and pull him over? I see. Presumably he accidentally got his fingers trapped in the straps and accidentally pulled hard enough to pull his friend off his feet?

The gash on the head was undoubtedly unintended but the pulling him hard backwards wasn't. That was intentional. Not unreasonable to assume if you pull someone off their feet they may injure themselves?

I think the op decided not to go in this morning and try and get the punishment downgraded and was going to try and go in tomorrow about the assault description.

Sorry, just checked back and it was to discuss the gross misdemeanour description

It was forceful as it hurt the boy and could have been fatal. It wasn't accidental as it was intentional and meant in 'play'.

OP That does sound harsh. I hope you got everything sorted.

Thinking about it there is actually a craze at my DS's school similar to what your Ds did, grabbing the handle of a back pack and pulling someone back, I think they call it seat belting or something along those lines.
Ds has been upset by it a few times as some Dc think it's funny to do it while he is walking down or up the stairs at school, unfortunately Ds's balance aint too great so it could cause big problems if it goes wrong.
I have mentioned it to his form tutor in the past but it's something they can't seem to control apparently. Maybe it's been seen as a similar problem at your Ds's school and it has taken something like the accident that has happened to your Ds's friend for them to make an example of it? But still I do think it is a bit OTT.

stonecircle - how can you know for sure that it was intentional??

You must be aware that when having fun you can grab for something, an arm for example, and as you grab on the spur of the moment the other party moves away and you end up grabbing the straps instead. Even having realised he had the straps in his hand it probably happened all way too fast and being his friend the intent to harm was unlikely.

It's just boys having fun and as I said before my own son has suffered a head injury at the hands of his friends thoughtlessness.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime at all. It would be far better to use the incident to teach the pupils of the danger of pulling others by rucksack straps.

What joyless individuals some of you are. I'm sure you're the same types who'd sue because a chair you sat on collapsed when you're 25 stones.

The 'love to be offendeds'.

How about you pc types consider the crime of 'stealing' crisps as well.

Maybe the injured boy should be isolated for the heinous crime of stealing.

How can grabbing straps not be intentional? The injury might not be intended but the grabbing of straps (pl) could not. 'Boys having fun' is the cop out for all sorts of anti social male behaviour - its banter, its fun, its somehow the victim's fault. These are not 5 yr olds but adolescent soon-to-be-men at the age where it is most important for them to understand what is acceptable behaviour and what is risky and how to take responsibility for their own judgement good or bad.

If one day's internal exclusion is an excessive punishment for reckless, thoughtless behaviour which caused an injury then what is acceptable? A finger wagging? With parents so quick to normalise the behaviour, thereby undermining the punishment?

This particularly stupid behaviour has become a craze in a number of the local schools around us, all of whom are addressing it with similar sanctions because lesser sanctions failed in a 'boys will be boys' culture. Maybe that makes them joyless but there are a lot less playground injuries of the type which require ambulances and police reports (it was the third or fourth serious injury leaving permanent damage that triggered this general response round our way).

I'm frankly glad that when mine were this age we seemed to have less parents wanting to excuse their own kids based on ‘boys/girls will be…’ whilst wanting other people's kids hung drawn and quartered.

I can remember being hauled in as the parent, on occasions of stupid behaviour of this type. It wasn’t pleasant, I didn’t enjoy it but I backed up the school. They learned on the smaller incidents rather than having to learn e.g. by behaving recklessly behind the wheel of a car.

Get a grip weatherwax and don't be so rude.

But Weatherwax, you sound quite outraged. Almost...offended. So are you a loves being offended or a good sport? Who decides these things anyway?

Heaven forbid we should want kids to be nice to each other and not pull each other over or steal crisps. How boring. How.... adult. Surely someone has to be.

ONE DAY of isolation is not excessive for at the age of THIRTEEN doing something reckless which could reasonably (particularly given this seems to be a known 'fad') be expected to cause harm or injury and DID cause a pretty bad injury to another.

Also as with all posts on mn, we're only getting the ops perspective on what her sons actually like and that he's never been in trouble before. The school might have a completely different assessment of him.

No offence meant to the op but we don't know you or your son.

stripy it was me that said schools punish now for minor misdemeanours that use to be dealt with differently. I love the fact you assume I'm writing that from a parents POV thoigh. I agree we do not get the backing of parents nowadays but I also think parents are pretty pissed off on the flip side of hearing theyre child has a DT for not having a pen or something equally minor.
I remember being in school in detention meant you'd pushed it too far. It meant something. Nowadays I see teens discuss them like they are saying they have a football match after school.

But could that be because the kind of thing we got given as minor punishments (litter collecting, running errands, cleaning desks etc) is no longer allowed?

It should be!

But really, not having a pen isn't a punishable offence. Sometimes they get left behind, dropped, broken (and not always by the owner!). My feeling is when you give punishment for such a little thing you have to escalate much further for actual wilful naughtiness.

I've seen schools with good systems such as negative and positive points and a collection of those equals a merit or something or a detention. But I think if syptudents are treated fairly they give more respect and tend to focus more on trying to get it right.

Believe me I'm strict! i just don't think punishment at first port of call works to get students to actively think for themselves. Usually those who do repeated things like not have equipment need support to organise themselves and those who forget it once genuinely have just forgotten or lost it.

Daughters school operates a house/merits/honours system so there's benefits for good behaviour as well as consequences for bad.

Not having equipment etc - my family would be classed as 'needing support' but my daughter manages to have everything ready. I think things would have to be extremely bad at home to not manage that (I don't just mean poverty) and if that's the case the school usually knows and makes allowances - even if they don't 'officially' know.