Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

[Hereforthebeer]

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

You're right, it does sound sanctimonious. I won't be clicking on it, thanks.

Okay, I lied - I did click on it - never can resist

I watched the minute and I reject the premise, insofar as it chimes with my idea of the purpose of education. Reform of education may be, from the government's perspective, driven economic considerations and cultural 'globalisation', but for me it isn't. I want my children (and those I teach) to be knowledgeable and capable because I believe that those attributes make them better placed to choose what they wish to do with their lives. When my daughter gets to 18 I want her to be able to decide she wants to be a heart surgeon or a tree surgeon. I don't want her choices limited by choices I make for her when she is five or six, when I decide learning to read or form the past tense aren't that important in the grand scheme of things, as long as she enjoys making models.

A lot of what is said by parents who insist that every moment in school should be about fun and engagement strikes me as Disney parenting. Sorry!

*first
*by

When you have a child who struggled all day at school, Tries REALLY hard but the results do not match the effort put in and by the time they are at home all the pent up frustration is let out in their safe place it takes everything as a parent to get dinner on the table and children happily bathed and settled for bed. As a parent it is exhausting and then add guilt for not completing spellings or reading especially when you read posts liked trifles, honestly it just shits me. Not everything is black and white. Sometimes teachers can inadvertently really make parents feel bad and inadequate. We all are doing the best we can. Of course everyone wants the best for their child.

Nowadays there are so many different paths to university, or further education, we only live one life and no one is going to live the same life.

At age (over 40) now completing my third postgrad qualification with a high distinction average no one knows or cares that I repeated year 12, that I just scraped into university.

Newman: What do you object to? All I'm reading there is ranting tbh.

newmanwannabe beautifully put.

You sound like you have a good balance.

Balance is what you're aiming for. If you have a child who develops a passion in something you can put a bit more energy into it. But most of us enjoy doing a bit of this, bit of that, with some down time aswell.

As a parent these days there are so many things we should/could be doing it's endless. You cannot do it all. We have to smell the roses on the way too!

Trifleorbust, what has amazed me, is that as a teacher - someone who makes a career and earns from education, that you even objected to hearing about Sir Ken Robinson. You're entitled to your opinion, but respectfully it seems that you have a very narrow view of what a successful education might look like beyond qualifications, and a wholly unrealistic view of what homelife and homework might be like too, for children who are in any way non-standard. And that's a shame.

Kitten: Please don't attribute views to me that I haven't expressed. I don't have an unrealistic view of what children can achieve when they are 'non-standard' (horrible turn of phrase). I value education for its own sake and want children to fulfil their personal potential - do their best, not all reach some arbitrary standard. I think some parents share those views and others don't. Yes, I have strong views about people choosing to ignore homework but I am not blind to the fact that a small minority of children need a more flexible approach. I simply object to the level of what is essentially complacency that I have seen on this thread.

And my objection to Mr. Robinson is moot - I disagree with him but so what? My objection was to you posting links in place of your own response, because yes, it's sanctimonious.

Trifleorbust, some of your post is heartening!

FWIW I don't see the issue with using "non-standard" as a catch all phrase so we will have to agree to differ.

I didn't post Ken's link to be sanctimonious, which I specifically pointed out. I posted it because he makes the point rather better than me, what with him being an internationally acclaimed educationalist and TED Talk's most popular speaker. Shame you didn't think it was worth more than a minute of your time.

It may well be, but he starts from a position I reject, so I don't necessarily feel it is useful in this particular context.

I don't like the phrase 'non-standard' but I'm not going to try to knock your head off about it - I know what you meant.

Even if you don't agree with everything he says, he is arguably the most well known educationalist the UK ever produced, and his TED talk (not the one I posted, this one below) was TED's most downloaded talk. I think it's essential viewing for anyone in education today.

www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity

Thanks Mathanxiety! It is so hard navigating a different system to the one you grew up in.

I am shocked at how many parents on MN think its ok for their kids to do no homework. Having an education requires work and much of that work is done in the form of homework, as in working at home on these skills that enable you to be educated. I tell my kids that their teacher is their boss and to get good grades they have to work hard. Yes they are young but in 10 years from now my kids will be starting part time work and I am doing what I think is the right thing to do for them to be set up for their adult life.

Kitten: I'm sure there are many things that many people would consider 'essential viewing': this forum isn't about posting links to support your personal agenda. Get a blog.

Trifleorbust, your arrogance is extraordinary. He's Emeritus Professor at Warwick and received a knighthood for his services to arts. Your posts display the confidence of opinion of the very silly, and I find it stunning that you've never heard of Sir Ken Robinson despite allegedly being a professional. For an educator you don't seem to value expanding your own education.

And Thankyou for outlining the purpose of mumsnet. Good to have your esteemed opinion.

Kitten: As sanctimonious as ever! It's not your job to educate me. I can draw up my own reading list. How about this: when you think you have a point, articulate it yourself instead of relying on links. People tend to respond better to it.

My own view is that there is no doubt a bigger picture discussion about what is the best way to educate and to what end (I come from one of those countries where formal education starts later) but I would feel I was doing a disservice to my children if I didn't help them to follow the system they are being educated in here to the best of their ability - including homework.

I wouldn't myself feel confident to unilaterally say it's unnecessary from them to do set homework regularly to keep up... if I had concerns about a negative impact I would discuss with the teacher.

That said, my children are young so homework is short - I try to encourage them to commit to it by teaching them the value of it in terms of practicing and progressing (even if it's not always fun). I can see that would be difficult if you think it is valueless and unproductive!

You being representative of "people"? How unsettling.

OP - I don't think it's a tiger mum thing to encourage doing homework - I guess many view doing homework as reasonable as encouraging child to learn to tidy up...the earlier you learn responsibility the better and we all know how bl**dy difficult to get kids to tidy up.

Others may view it akin to tormenting young non-walking baby with pointless learn-to-walk intruments and thus ruin their hips. Let babies crawl, pull up to stand, suck on random objects and do their own thing! Then they will start when ready, unless there are other physical issues! (as we're seeing with late formal education in different countries)

So how to deal with a mad current system as it it without clashing with it? I am navigating this as my Y1 son is a slow starter in reading and his homework is already a big book comprehension thing and write an essay. (facepalm) I won't write the homework for him, but I'll read the book to him and we'll talk about it. Let him write a few short sentences and that's it. My priority is not to ruin his enthusiasm for learning, and I'll do other supplementary stuff with him to counteract the effects of system. Hard work though.

I think the problem is many teachers become teachers because they were 'good' in school and the structured learning suited thier personality and some therfore find it hard to think outside that box and see other ways of learning and achieving than following 'the rules' as this is how they themselves have achieved. The fact that primary homework and doing homework has been shown by study after study to have no affect on long term outcomes - so no it does not make kids 'better' at secondary school or collage or university and yes this is very counter intuitive for some people - does not seam to be able to peirce thier or some parents beliefs.

I don't actually think homework is of much use, particularly in lower primary.

However when DS joined the school (private) we were required to sign a letter confirming that we would support the school in ensuring that homework was completed. Therefore that's what I do.

My personal beliefs are not really relevant as I've entered a contract with the school.

I make sure he doesn't spend too long on it and I don't push the optional activities. I do feel there is value in teaching DCs that sometimes you have to spend time doing things which aren't as enjoyable as you'd like them to be and the best way to get through that is to schedule time for it, do it and then go out and play again.

I get that DCs are different, but ultimately if you choose to send them to school, surely you either follow the general prescribed way of doing things or find an alternative way for them to learn.

I've not managed to read every post but agree with everything hummus said.

Interesting. Im quite laid back with homework too. My only 2 exceptions are generally when my dc are learning to read I make sure we read together Monday to Thursday. I also support them in pursuing any extra curricular activities, although for my oldest 2 this is mainly sport.

I don't think it's made a scrap of difference. They are both naturally intelligent and top of their respective classes and year groups. Dc1 got a scholarship to a private school and entry to a super selective grammar.

My youngest dc is not at school /pre school yet but knows most of her letters and numbers already. They teach a little at nursery but the rest she's picked up herself as children are programmed to learn. I would never do letter learning or flash cards or anything at home..

I guess my dc probably have a high natural intelligence. However even if they didn't I can't believe tiger mumming makes any real difference. One of my Dc1s friends is quite bright but at an average level. His mum pushed a lot at primary and sadly he still didn't get into a grammar school which she wanted him to so that is an example of why not to bother in my mind!

It fascinates me that people are getting hung up on how useless homework is. I'm also convinced there is no real educational gain from homework especially so early on. Even at secondary level, I find it only ever useful as a revision technique and only where the student is motivated to engage with the revision task rather than do the bare minimum. Is this point not ever so slightly irrelevant though? All too often recently I have battled against kids who demand to know "Why..." they have to do what they have been told {homework, wear uniform, arrive to school on time, tidy up after themselves etc}, the answer is simple, because they are the rules and we have to follow the rules, so get over it and just do it. Or perhaps they are the exhausted words of an overworked teacher (been a very long week or 3, this is always the hardest half term).