Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

[Hereforthebeer]

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

Some people could do with work on their comprehension skills. The OP didn't say that she was a 'tiger' mum.

I agree with Paxillin to some degree. Once you get to the job market, no one cares whether you got an A* or a C unless it's a vital component of further study/a job.

However, putting a bit of work in whilst kids are young (and usually relatively willing to learn) can save them time and effort later in life. If you can confidently spell, you'll be able to complete tasks quicker. If you have instant recall for times tables, then most other maths tasks are easier.

OP, I think you probably have the balance about right.

I hasten to add "good enough" does include doing the homework and being on time.

I haven't read every post YouTheCat

Are people claiming the OP has said she's a tiger mum?

The OP says, They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.

I think people are just pointing out that supporting your children with homework, would not make her 'more tiger', or 'more competitive'.

It would just make her more like the majority of primary school parents really.

Once you get to the job market, no one cares whether you got an A or a C unless it's a vital component of further study/a job.*

Not true. If you want a job with a Google, a McKinsey, a Goldman Sachs, a NASA, they care very much. In general it's true that it won't matter for most people and most roles, but not true for elite jobs and companies.

I think it is good that you aren't making homework the be all and end all. However, as a teacher the bit that struck the cord with me though is that you have said they are under achieving, if this happens in primary all that happens is the gap gets bigger and bigger as they go up through school. Obviously school should be using strategies to overcome this but homework is also used to help plug this gap.

lottiegarbanzo from your questions, you've misunderstood my point and the relationship with the teachers.

1) Why do you see your relationship with the teacher and the school as naturally antagonistic? That's not normal. Why don't you see it as co-operative and mutually supportive? I don't. I haven't said this. Their teachers are great, really approachable and we speak regularly, they are doing a good job and I respect them and so do my DCs. If we've missed something I apologise and explain why. I am never antagonistic. I ask them if its ok, or apologise. My point isn't about some minor rebellion with the school.

2. Until you understand the approach being taken by the school, you're in no position to critique the teacher's practice. Don't flatter yourself with the word 'criticise' when what you appear to mean is 'uninformed grumble'. This is an assumption. I fully understand the approach take by the school. The school is outstanding and they have great staff. I have read the homework policy/parents agreements and am fully informed.

I think my question is about proactively and positively considering my parenting approach, and wanting to do the right thing for my children. I'm really interested in what other people do when the homework burden is high and the children are young. As I said in my original post, results aren't the only consideration for young children, security and low stress are too. The number of young children suffering anxiety is increasing, as are mental health problems. To blindly follow the curriculum without considering what is right, isn't disrespecting the school (maybe gove/justine greening ) as long as you are polite and respectful and co-oporate with the teachers and they know you are all working toward the same thing - the development of your child. The teachers were happy with the approach to the reading logs, which I mentioned earlier, in their words 'as long as their reading we're happy'. As as I say - we generally do pretty much everything, there's just a point when its too much.

I loathe homework at primary level, but have always made my kids do it. I didn't think it was optional!

As much as my kids hate having their weekends disrupted by homework, they'd hate it even more if everyone else was handing theirs in and they had to say they hadn't bothered to do it.

The number of young children suffering anxiety is increasing, as are mental health problems.

You don't think turning up with incomplete/undone homework would cause anxiety?

Young children in general really want to please their teachers. They also generally want to blend in with their peers.

Not true. If you want a job with a Google, a McKinsey, a Goldman Sachs, a NASA, they care very much. In general it's true that it won't matter for most people and most roles, but not true for elite jobs and companies.

I'm an academic, my job requires a PhD and several years experience after. Perhaps not elite, but not entry level either. I need to get through lots of stuff. Good enough is extremely important, I can't spend two days on preparing a lecture, I have 8 of them per week and they are a fraction of my task. I stand by good enough and I bet NASA does not want its employees to fine-tune an email for 2 hours, either. I think good enough gets more important in more "elite" jobs. The CEO won't put more effort than needed into anything, that is a fresh graduate's error.

The thing with 'good enough' is that it has different meaning for different children.
For children who tend to be perfectionists, good enough is a good thing to learn. They are leaning that everything doesn't have to be perfect.
For others, like dc1!, good enough means I can do as little as possible and it's still ok. For them, learning that good enough isn't enough is just as important

pax that is totally true.

Paz: I wasn't talking about good enough, I was talking about grades.

I think you are doing fine, some parents push their kids even when they are above average.
There's no need to "turn up the heat" unless they aren't reaching targets, or potential.
Primary is essentially about learning some basics through play, and then adding more as they get into ks2 years 5/6
I think kids have enough pressure without parents piling it on, and some are
pushing themselves anyway.

gilly why is it an issue to push your children when they are 'above thre grades' but not if they are 'under the grades'?
Is there anything wrong with aiming to be 'above the grades'?

Oh I see, Trifleorbust. I misunderstood that. I am torn between pushing for A tiger-mum style and teaching the value of "good enough". Many of the most successful people know exactly which bit needs an A and which need to be done just about ok-ish.

But I will add, on the subject of 'good enough', that the attitude I would accept from the CEO (backed up by experience and judgement) on what makes their effort 'good enough' might be very different from the attitude I would accept from a new graduate who turned in mediocre work and told me they thought 'good enough'! That's not usually for neophytes to decide . I expect people hired straight out of school or uni to do their best work and 'good enough' is often indicative of a shit attitude in my view.

Well, maybe to answer the straight question, my daughter did her homework on time and in full to the best of her ability, it's a lesson that stayed with her throughout her education and still is with her now she's at uni and will hopefully carry it on into her adult life. She is a bright well adjusted adult, and I very much doubt doing her homework on time at primary school ever damaged her, nor did I see myself as some form of "tiger mum" for ensuring her homework was done.

On a personal front, for me there is a huge difference between " good enough" and doing ones best. And teaching kids "good enough " and not to do their best could lead to a life of mediocrity, and no that's not stress free in the slightest,

Of course sometimes doing your best isn't good enough in terms of expectations , and sometimes due to other pressures good enough just has to do, but i would never encourage my child to do less than she is capable of as standard practice for no reason other than it's good enough.

To say my kids don't their homework often and play and watch dvds instead as I'm worried about future mental health and stress is I think pushing it a bit. As they grow that's something to watch and manage. But cmon, in years one and two?

Gilly children above average need the same amount of pushing as children below average, surely?
If they start school at average+X, they need to reach Y6average+X, at the very least. One could argue more,
in fact, as the most able children should be progressing at an accelerated rate than averagely able children, because they're capable of learning and assimilating knowledge and skills more quickly.

Those children need just as much pushing to achieve their potential as a less able child. Possibly more, in fact, as schools tend to cater best for those around the mean, mainly because outliers are so infrequent.

Good enough is seriously underrated. I am much better at good enough now, get loads more done and I am trying to teach the kids that good enough is good enough.

School and work are completely different. School is about mastery of a basic tool kit, such that you no longer have to think about anything before using the tools and applying your skills. Work is about fulfilling the requirements of the job.

If it helps, I am from Russia - who used to have the best mathematicians and scientists in the world (just look at the staff list of UK and US universities and Google folks..), great musicians...(today's schools are no longer as good)

Children started school at 7 and even for shorter days than here and 3 months of uninterrupted summer holidays, on top.

It's important to enjoy childhood and encourage them a lot of freedom to do their own hands on things as that way they develop intuition of the world around them - then they can be more ready to face challenge.This cannot be replaced by extra hours of school and worksheets in early years! Once they are 7-8, it's so much easier to introduce reading, writing and maths! And put them through ever-increading challenge throughout the years.

I grew up in UK for second half of my childhood and I felt huge difference - while there is as much material to learn and as much homework, BUT there is no strict emphasis on quality (e.g. handwriting, neatness, good spelling and grammar). Quality of curriculum also lower in the later years and just more repetition, it's like the teachers have given up..

Just to say not AINBU to let them enjoy childhood.

Hyper, traditionally there was a focus in English schools on handwriting, spelling, grammar, etc. But it must be remembered that only small numbers finished education to 16 or 18 in those times. The vast majority would have left at 14 to work, and been trained by employers ( something no longer happening) in the area they went into.
The government abandoned 'script' and standardised spelling (ITA?) in the 70s, and we're reaping the rewards now with teachers that have never been taught properly trying to teach others. There is no love of learning in English schools, no thirst for knowledge, no drive to become skilled at anything other than what will be on the final papers at assessment time. This now goes through all levels of education, even university.

*Kitten mummy

I think you should do everything that's asked of the school without fail.*

I'm lost for words.*

Why are you lost for words?

I don't consider myself a tiger mum at all, but I do ensure DC do all reading/spellings/homework asked of them. I have entrusted education to the school and will support them by doing as we are asked.

As I said, I don't think doing additional formal work is necessary or wise but what on earth is wrong with doing what your teachers ask of you? If I thought the teachers were asking too much, I'd raise that with the school, not just ignore it.

There is a very small window in which young people can learn to read and write really well, including learning the common and less common spellings in English.
Utter nonsense! In Europe they don't even begin formal learning until much older, and their standards (even in English) are higher.
There are numerous children who were 'late' to read and write, but that did not hold them back long term.

Getting them into the habit of settling down to work everyday is really important for secondary school
No it isn't. There are plenty of primary schools that don't do homework at all but the children still cope with homework at secondary. And so many things change from primary to secondary that homework habits can easily change at the same time.

I would do lots of reading and practice times tables - but do it in a fun way, there's no need to sit at the table and write them out.
Limit other homework to 20 minutes a week. Then do lots of activities that encourage a love of learning. Not more workbooks, but creative activities, cooking, kitchen science, nature activities, trips to museums, read to them, watch interesting things on TV and internet etc.

The primary years are crucial and form the child's attitude for the rest of their life.
Which is exactly why the love of learning is SO much more important than sitting down to do structured homework every day. I never had homework in primary school but I loved learning thanks to the fact that my parents encouraged it. It never looked anything like formal learning though.

MyWine: Generally that might be true of the brighter children. It will not be true of the less able, who simply will not catch up. Why else do you think I take on classes of 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 year olds every year who can't spell basic words? If they all catch up eventually, why are half of them borderline illiterate as teenagers?