AIBU to not work for free?!

[PinkyPie80]

Fucking awkward situation I've got myself in. I've name changed as fear this might out me.

I do cakes on the side, not professionally but if it's anyone's birthday etc I will be the one that makes the cakes and I charge for my time to make the cake but not at a professional rate.

We have a family friend that we have known for years. She owns a restaurant and struggled when she first started out so all of our family supported her and brought custom to her restaurant in the form of friends and we recommended her on Facebook etc. She is now successful and doing well.

She asked my mother if she knew anyone that would make her sisters wedding cake. My mum suggested me, the family friend said "money no object" She is foreign and sometimes the language is a barrier so I'm wondering whether my mother misheard her.

Last night my mother and I went to the restaurant to talk about what she wanted. She had cooked us a meal for free so we could sit down and discuss it. Quite an elaborate 2 tier cake with 80 cupcakes. I took the details and at the end she said "don't charge me for the labour, just charge me for the ingredients" I laughed thinking it was a joke but her face was deadpan and she said "I will take you out for a meal afterwards to say Thankyou"

Now because I had just eaten a 3 course meal for free and she is a family friend, I didn't say anything at the time. Came back home and my DH has gone off his tits, saying I can't do all those hours of work for free/a meal.

The wedding is 17th December so she hasn't given me a lot of notice

I have no bloody idea what to do now, what to say!!! Help mumsnet!!

I hope she says no forget it!

I expect she'll say "I cant afford more than that, your mum promised you'd do it for that, I dont have time to get anyone else, if you dont do our cake you'll have ruined our wedding...."

It's not clear from your OP, as you said it was 'on the side' but are you registered as a business to bake cakes? Hygiene certificate from local authority, public liability insurance, relative NI contributions, self assessment etc? Because if you aren't then you actually cannot charge for your time.

Sorry if you have done all the above, if so, your price is fair and just for 'mates rates'.

Oh come off it sassy

I make the occasional cake for people that I know and I make abit of profit (as you can see by my prices) I don't advertise on Facebook and I don't have a "business name"

By the time I had done all of the above that you mention, it would not be worth me doing it. My DH and I pay taxes on our main jobs and we don't claim benefits.

If everyone did as you suggest above then no one would do anything for anyone else - it's common courtesy to give someone some cash for doing something for you!

Be prepared for her to just not respond. She'll leave you hanging just to piss you off.

sassy is right I'm afraid, even if you do some work "on the side" you're meant to register as self-employed and submit a tax return. I know it seems a lot for a very small-scale business, but sassy (I assume) doesn't make the rules. It's either paid work or it isn't.

I don't think it's appropriate for the OP to have to register as a business or trader. If she bakes to order occasionally for people (i.e. not from a premises and not every day) and they pay her then she is informally selling her hire for a specific service. It's hardly the black economy is it? If HMRC are interested in that I'll eat my hat. Although I'd rather have a nice piece of cake.

If I was paying £150 for a cake I'd expect it to have come from someone with the appropriate certificates etc.

If you are baking cakes for profit, you are business. If you are doing it in return of wine/meal out etc then you are a friend doing a favour. There isn't really an inbetween as much as you would like to convince yourself there is.

www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/startingup

buying ingredients for the purpose of selling them at a profit in the form of a cake would probably count as trading in the eyes of HMRC

the fact that you dont advertise, dont claim benefits and that you pay tax on your main job isnt relevant, the money that you get in return for cakes is undeclared income and therefore you are acting illegally, and yes it is the black economy

While strictly speaking the posters saying about the legal aspects are right, I disagree you'd get a wedding cake and a ton of cupcakes for £150 if the op were paying tax and fully certificated. It'd be nearer £300

Oh come off it. Register for a hygiene certificate and as a small
Business to make a few cakes on the side? Ha ha ha

Oh my days - NO-ONE tells the taxman the money they make on the side.... why wold you?

I do odd jobs here and there for money (eg. fix someones' printer or connect them to the internet) and get maybe £30-50 every so often.

No way am I declaring that!

Oh come off it. Register for a hygiene certificate and as a small Business to make a few cakes on the side?
since 'on the side' typically means unofficially and off the books then if you did things by the book you would (by definition) no longer be on the side

not sure why on the side makes any difference tbh. I'm saying no one in their right mind would go through all that admin and expense for a few cakes

NO-ONE tells the taxman the money they make on the side
your statement is an oxymoron

Shining why are you obsessed with on the side? Fwiw I am
Using it to mean not your main job ie I'm a hairdresser and do a bit of piercing on the side. Does it really matter?

Shining do you think doing anything at all can be taxable, capitalisation or full stops for instance?

no one in their right mind would go through all that admin and expense for a few cakes
the alternative is acting illegally, though isnt it

if you want to run a business it's up to you to make sure it's viable, if complying with the law is too much trouble relative to the profit that you expect to make then the answer is to conclude that your business isnt viable

Shining do you think doing anything at all can be taxable, capitalisation or full stops for instance
yep, spag attracts v heavy tax penalties....thats why I try and avoid it

I'm not obsessed, just pointing out the facts, if you dont declare income you are strictly speaking breaking the law

I realise 'on the side' is open to interpretation, I take it to mean 'off the books'

Tbh I'd inflate the cost of the ingredients. She's not exactly going to ask for receipts. And don't get a present either. My DH used to bake and he'd often do cakes as the wedding gift. People loved it would cost us about 40 quid but save the B&G about 300.

I do odd jobs here and there for money (eg. fix someones' printer or connect them to the internet) and get maybe £30-50 every so often

keep it under your hat then 00100001 in case some bureaucratically minded busybody goes whispering off to the tax man, oh and keep it off social media, HMRC is monitoring everything you do on the internet with his fancy new data mining computer system

You are being insane.
Just tell her to buy one of these
www.waitrose.com/shop/DisplayProductFlyout?productId=69349

Say no. It's like someone telling me to just charge them at cost for materials but to make them a frilly dance skirt which will take 8 hours. Er, no. Totally different if you offer.

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