To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

MistresssIggi I was one of those who thought 'transphobic!' a lot before I actually got down off my soap box and really listened to the concerns.

I now wholeheartedly agree.

For those still in the dark. Knowing biological facts, and stating them, does not a transphobe make.

Wanting to feel safe, in spaces reserved for those without penises does not make people transphobic.

Worrying about an increasingly vocal and bullying movement that is seeking to take away women's rights instead of fighting for some of their own is no transphobic.

Questioning organisations that have people actively encouraging very young and vulnerable children to feel uncomfortable in their bodies because of made up rules (only girls wear dresses and makeup) is not transphobic.

Ouriana I wasn't aware of ignoring any rational arguments on this thread.
Please read my post where I said I hadn't seen the bigger picture.

I'm still not worried about it, because transwomen are not men.

Why do you call them transwomen then? Why not women?

Maybe, because they are not women.

Apparently there is a huge fallacy that having a penis makes you dangerous

Have you never had a look at violent crime statistics, the single biggest predictor of propensity to violence is possession of a penis.

Anyway, personally I don't mind sharing a toilet with trans women, others do and I think that should be respected. I think female changing rooms and other female only spaces are more problematic though and I wouldn't be happy to share these. I also wouldn't want to compete in sporting events against trans women because of the advantage a male body would give them.

I was thinking about this the other day and as I understand the law a MtT prison officer, working in a female prison would be conducting intimate body searches on female prisoners and they would not be allowed to refuse this.

I'm totally torn on this
On one hand, yes I don't want someone with a penis in a women's toilet

On the other side, my friend is trans. He is a man, and I've always known him as that, he was born female and has been through a lengthy hormonal routine, had his breasts removed etc. However he has female genitals as I believe the procedure to create a penis is complex/risky/not guaranteed to work. If he went in the women's toilet there would be total horror as he (I don't want to say looks as to me he IS 100%) is male
So he uses the men's toilet, and just goes in a cubicle
I am a bit at the amount that seem to be transitioning but my friend is definitely someone who did the right thing

I think you are just stirring an emotional subject...I think you are enjoying getting a rise out of people..if you were genuinely interested you could of read some back threads first and found out in advance what yr asking...

susan what are they then because they're not women? The clues (y'know, the genetic ones, the chromosomes and so on) all point to one very obvious conclusion. They are men. You cannot change sex. Fact.

I haven't ordered anyone off my thread so stop putting words in my mouth Manumission, merely suggested the people who have merely posted that this is either boring or annoying or whatever might like to find a thread more to their taste. Post what you like on here. I've realised that maybe there is more to it than toilets, but I also don't think you can tar all transwomen with the same brush. Not all men are rapists, not all transwomen are men in dresses waiting to ambush some unsuspecting female. It's been an interesting thread and I thank anyone who has taken the time to answer my messages respectfully.

"Plenty of reported incidents of women being attacked by men dressed as women in public toilets but I've yet to see cases of constant attacks on trans women in men's toilets."

I have just googled this to see what I can find.
Nothing.
However quite a few reports of transwomen being attacked by men...

While I agree wholeheartedly with unworthy, I'm so bored of these threads. Do you really care, OP, or is it just a dull Wednesday evening and you feel like poking the hornets' nest?

I'm a WOMAN. I'm proud of being a woman, and I despise the fact that the word is being either appropriated by MEN, or frowned upon by the younger generation.

mygast assuming thus is a genuine question.

I would suggest you look at the reasons why we have segregated toilets men/women and segregated changing room men/women.
Now add to this the fact that 80% of transwomen will never have the op (so are likely to have a working penis) and that the proportion of transwomen committing crimes such as aggression and rape is the same than in men.

The reason there are some women only space is to protect women from aggression and rape by men.
Its to allow them to be in a space where they will be able to feel safer.
As transwomen are as likely to show agreesive behaviour as men, you are in effect taking the same risks than if you are allowing 'cis men' (I am using the term cis in purpose there...) to go into women space.

The thing is, yes most men would only go in the toilet to go to the loo and thats it. But the proportion of men who would use that opportunity for other things is seen as not negligeable. So it should be for transwomen.

I'd love to know how many of you actually know any trans women? Sometimes feels like there's a very knee jerk reaction against them. You may feel very differently if you knew any in real life. Most trans women I know are as anti sexism as women are! And are very gentle people. One is very very feminist as having lived as a man she can see very clearly what male privilege is and the amount of shit women have to take and is outraged by it.

I can only assume that the OP and others who think they are 'absolutely fucking correct' or call people transphobic for not wanting to share a space with a penis, are being deliberately disingenous.

It is NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

Violence against women is a GLOBAL PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE. Women and girls are raped, assaulted and killed IN THEIR THOUSANDS every week. One THIRD of women will be subjected to some kind of violence in her lifetime from men.

Understandably, in that context, some women are simply not comfortable with sharing intimate spaces with men. You know, the humans with penises. Because men with intent to commit violence don't usually advertise their intentions beforehand, it's been considered safer for decades now that penis does not come into women only spaces. The fact that a small and vocal group is now demanding, not asking, to be let in, a group who have penises, is making a lot of women feeling frightened and uncomfortable.

Can you really, really not grasp this?

Or just easier to show how supercool and progressive you are and call women who express their valid fears transphobic.

Here's a name for anyone who thinks it's ok for men to enter women's spaces; MISOGYNIST.

If you support men with penises being allowed into women only spaces, you are a misogynist. Pure and simple.

Hope that helps.

but I also don't think you can tar all transwomen with the same brush.

You're not reading a single word, are you?

Disagree by all means.

But DON'T keep misrepresenting other people's positions.

but I also don't think you can tar all transwomen with the same brush. Not all men are rapists, not all transwomen are men in dresses waiting to ambush some unsuspecting female.

We don't have men and women's bathrooms/prisons/whatever because all men are rapists. Nobody thinks all men are a danger to women. Same as nobody thinks all transwomen are a danger.

Sorry, Manumission, I think I'm missing something - there isn't a sex segregation being lifted, though? Because they're not men. They may have been once, but not now.

Not snarking, genuinely trying to understand the concern here - once people got a bit more nuanced I saw this argument come up a few times and I still don't get how it's inviting men into women-only spaces.

And for the person who asked why I said transwomen not women - because we're talking about transwomen as opposed to ciswomen. So having a distinguisher is helpful.

Manumission I'm trying to be civil here and have admitted I may have got it wrong in not understanding the bigger picture, why are you so determined to be offended by me?

Ouriana apology accepted

Once again, nobody is saying that trans women are rapists/violent/predators.

there isn't a sex segregation being lifted, though? Because they're not men. They may have been once, but not now.

Of course there is. Once this policy is widely adopted, if you see a big hairy bloke acting suspiciously in the women's toilets and report it to the shop/club/organisation, they won't be able to simply remove him on the basis he's in the wrong place because an "everyone decides which loo is appropriate for them to use" policy will be in place.

Because they're not men. They may have been once, but not now.

But most trans women still have a fully functioning penis. I don't agree there is such a thing as a female penis.