To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

But crime is hard to police! People can go undetected for years.

Someone who lives near me is a convicted offender who is banned from certain locations. I happened to see him in such a location while visiting a city where neither of us live, and I reported him to security. That's how people get caught. They slip up, or people report suspicions. Such behaviour tends to be compulsive. People do it over and over again until they get caught.

I have been verbally-assaulted by a post-op M-F trans woman in a toilet before. However, I didn't report it. It was on a night out and I didn't want any trouble.

Not all assaults are reported.

Of course, it is in no way unknown for women to attack other women in public toilets and changing rooms.

NotCarylChurchill the key word there is attempted. Actual rate of suicide is the same.

And you kind of have to be a little sceptical when these can be self reported and you have long threads (check out Reddit) on how claiming to be suicidal or 'attempting' suicide can get you faster treatment/recognition.

And we police sex segregated facilities by using ID, not by looking at people's genitals in public places.

Almond - by the way I'm not advocating that trans should be allowed in the ladies. Infact I agree with other posters up thread that there should be toilets specifically for this trans men and women. I just think in reality a law like this would be very difficult to action (a bit like the middle lane hoggers, but that's an entirely different thread)

I teach my sons to be respectful of women's boundaries. Don't sit too close in the near empty train carriage. Don't walk too close behind on the quiet road. Don't hassle the woman in a coffee shop who is wearing headphones or reading a book. Don't interrupt a conversation and demand everyone focuses on you. It's called being a parent.
Why would you not teach your sons that? Because it's the job of my daughters to forget their lived experience and be accommodating and nice to strangers? Women are scared of men because they hurt us. They way to tackle that is to stop the men from hurting us, not to stop the women from being mean enough to object.

Yes I know it's #NotAllMen but it is Schrodinger's rapist

Come to think of it, I don't know any decent man who wouldn't take into consideration how a woman might feel tbh.

I do know my ex would act all faux-outraged if it anyone would suggest doing what DP (and most other decent men I assume) do when walking behind a lone woman. Cue lots of cries of "not all men are sexual predators!" and "how dare she not trust me because I've got a dick!" and continuing on as normal with no consideration how the woman might feel.

The ex in question was also sexist twat who emotionally abused me throughout our relationship. So tbh it's not a surprise that he would give no consideration to how he would make a woman feel when walking behind her at night and think that his needs and feelings were more important.

I have no issues at all with a transitioned MTF using a female toilet. Even a MTF whom has full commited to the transition process.

Im horrified that women are blaming other women for men feeling uncomfortable in our spaces.

Yes, such laws are difficult to police for people we are absolutely determined to break them. But most people would abide by them simply because they were the laws, and of those who broke them, some would be caught.

We're not going to be able to create a perfect world where every criminal gets caught.

Almond - careful your entering perfect world scenarios :)

I do think they should have separate spaces as I understand a man transitioning into a woman may feel intimidated using the men's. And probably vice Versa (whats the general opinion of woman turning into men but still have vaginas using the women's?) so really best scenario is a third or fourth toilet option really

DP is currently sitting beside me right now and he also agrees that teaching your son to be considerate of how they might make girls/women feel is the right thing to do.

I don't think anyone has an issue with anything intersex people as a group are doing.

We are talking about the hypothetical situation in which sex segregated facilities were actually sex segregated by law for adults.

Repeatedly using sex segregated facilities that you were not legally allowed in for any purpose would be a compulsion. Otherwise, why are you in there? You can have a wee in the facilities provided for you.

I'm yet to meet a transwomen who's sole reason for transitioning was because they were a perv.

Sorry, that post was to Churchill, not Rose.

Come to think of it, the other man who I know off the top of my head who would act all faux outraged at having to take into consideration how he might make women feel has also spent time in jail for sexual assault.

So two men who are outraged at having to take women's feelings into consideration and would dismiss them and carry on; one sexist and emotionally abusive and the other who sexually assaulted a woman.

Interesting.

Rose, yes, non binary trans people would like a third option anyway. If people want additional options, they should go for it.

Almond - well it would certainly stop these threads!

What policy says women should be forced to show their vagina? Is there a link to this policy?

I don't think it would rose. There have been various cases where trans women have been offered private locker rooms and refused them on the basis that they want to share with women.