To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

Ftm aren't always banging on about their specialness and demanding rights.

But without the penis they suddenly become female?

Ftm aren't always banging on about their specialness and demanding rights

Totally agree with this, but do feel people who are jumping on the wagon of total 'look how tolerant I am' do start banging on about this, even if the FTM don't actually care about some of the issues being fought for them!

Why can a transwoman not use the males toilets in your opinion op?

From reading through this thread I have come to realise that I was initially wrong in my assumption about the prejudice views towards transsexuals on MN...
It appears that many Mums netters are just prejudiced to anyone born with a penis in general.
I guess going from the thoughts and beliefs shared on this thread, I should start teaching my 2 yr old son now that he is very likely to grow up as a sexual predator who is just waiting for the chance to attack girls and women (because obviously the statistics show just that) and that even if he doesn't choose to take the route of being a sexual/violent attacker he will still make most females feel extremely uncomfortable just being around him because he was born with a penis!!

Well if they chop off their penis then it's fine for them to use women's toilets apparently.

So you'll be letting your DS use men's toilets by himself as soon as he can use the loo unaided, will you Summer? After all it would be irrational prejudice against men not to let him.

Why would we police every toilet in the country, Rosegold? Crime happens everywhere all the time and we do not have police monitoring everywhere constantly.

I suspect it is more likely that if a man was frequenting women's toilets, changing rooms etc, they would be noticed by a professional who worked with them, a neighbour or family member. It is unlikely members of the public would be the ones to notice a pattern or be looking out for it.

Where I used to work, a man had a pattern of entering the women's toilets, and it was picked up by security rather than by women noticing who was in the next cubicle.

From reading through this thread I have come to realise that I was initially wrong in my assumption about the prejudice views towards transsexuals on MN...
It appears that many Mums netters are just prejudiced to anyone born with a penis in general.
I guess going from the thoughts and beliefs shared on this thread, I should start teaching my 2 yr old son now that he is very likely to grow up as a sexual predator who is just waiting for the chance to attack girls and women (because obviously the statistics show just that) and that even if he doesn't choose to take the route of being a sexual/violent attacker he will still make most females feel extremely uncomfortable just being around him because he was born with a penis!!

Summer I take it you aren't bothered about the CRB checks carried out on any nursery staff, child minders, teachers etc. that will be caring for your two year old son.

After all how likely is it really that that teacher will be a pedo waiting to pounce or formerly abusive/criminal.

How dare you assume that someone's son could possibly hurt your son. You must hate men.

After all it's such a small risk, who are you to try to protect a vulnerable person from harm by assuming certain people may cause them harm.

Silly.

OP, you're not alone. I genuinely don't understand why it would be a problem. I'm most puzzled by the "especially when my kids are using the toilet" comment. Very odd.

Like hell does anyone genuinely not understand the issue after reading 6 pages of this thread

Men with penises use the men's loo, not the women's.

It's really as simple as that.

If you don't understand why many women would consider it a problem to share toilets with members of the opposite sex, why do you think single sex facilities exist?!

So you'll be letting your DS use men's toilets by himself as soon as he can use the loo unaided, will you Summer?

I wouldn't let my daughter use the women's toilets by herself as soon as she could use the loo unaided, and I doubt that most mothers would. So this seems to be a non-argument.

"OP, you're not alone. I genuinely don't understand why it would be a problem. I'm most puzzled by the "especially when my kids are using the toilet" comment. Very odd."

What I find odd is that people seem incapable of reading other people,s posts. For example, I posted "I would love a proper definition of transphobia.

And I wish we could stop talking about loos, because they Always seem to be used as a proxy for the problem-and it is much more complex than that.

Can we talk about a scenario that I have just imagined. I visit my very elderly frail mother in a care home and find her in a distressed state. I discover that she has had what is euphemistically called "an accident"- and the care assistant who came to clean her up has a beard and a moustache and is 6'5. Wouldni be transphobic to ask that my mother is not cared for by that person, even if she identifies as a woman?

I have absolutely no problem with trans people taking a full and active part in society- I think it's fantastic that society is gradually becoming more accepting. But sometimes we have a conflict of rights. And at the moment "born women" seem to be losing out. And it feels very much as if transactivists (not transwomen because I think that they are not necessarily the same thing) are bringing their previous male privilege into their new lives as women. And, as women, behaving as men often have by expecting women to shift up and accomodate them."
And nobody even commented. Too busy with their confirmstion bias generators......

So it's the penis you have a problem with? If they didn't have a penis, it would be acceptable for them to use the women's toilet?
What is it about a transgendered woman that makes people think they pose more of a risk to children than someone who was born a women? Is that all down to penis, too?

Almond - but that was a man in a place where he worked. And from the sounds of it was also a man being a man, not a man transitioning into a woman.

Also in the other example, you are relying again on these people being known to the establishment they are using. What about shopping centre toilets? What about public loos in the park/street?

In reality it would be very hard to police, of course at work it wouldn't be much told an issue, or in swimming pools/gyms etc that are regularly used by the same people. But that is not the case of all public toilets.

Who is it you are talking to, Wine?

I should start teaching my 2 yr old son now that he is very likely to grow up as a sexual predator who is just waiting for the chance to attack girls and women (because obviously the statistics show just that)

No, the statistics show that the vast majority of violent crime and sexual crime is committed by men. That is not the same thing as saying the statistics show that all men are sexual predators or even that most are.

I believe that the vast majority of men are nice decent people however that still doesn't mean I'm not going to be more wary of being alone with a strange man than a strange woman and for good reason too.

Men tend to be bigger and stronger than women so if a man decided he was going to attack me then I would have no to little chance of stopping him. However if a woman decided she was going to attack me I would be in a much better position to stop it or escape because the balance of power an physical strength is more equal.

even if he doesn't choose to take the route of being a sexual/violent attacker he will still make most females feel extremely uncomfortable just being around him because he was born with a penis!!

Making your son aware of how he might make women/girls feel is actually a valuable lesson for him to learn and I really don't know why you're dismissing it or trying to make out like it's silly.

I know if DP is walking behind a lone woman at night and there is no one else around he will either drop back and wait until she's out of eye shot or he will cross the road so it's clear he's not following her. He does this because he knows that having a man walking behind you at night on a deserted street can be intimidating and scary for a lone woman.

Now my DP is not violent. He is not a rapist or a sexual predator. He knows that and I know that. However he realises that the woman he's walking behind doesn't know that and he doesn't think it's fair for her to be scared or worried. So he takes a few minutes to consider how she might be feeling and acts accordingly.

So yes given that when your son grows up he is very likely going to be bigger and physically stronger than most women then teaching him to take into consideration how some women might feel is the right thing to do.

Serendipity you literally just took the words straight out of my mouth.
I will allow my son to go into the men's toilets on his own when I feel he is old enough to visit any public toilet on his own

I posted this well-known report of attacks on women in public toilets and changing rooms upthread but, as with the Danielle Muscato posts, there's no reaction to it from the "I can't believe what horrible transphobes you all are" posters. In fact after I posted, more than one person came out with the "no transwoman has ever attacked a woman in a toilet" lie.

No it's not about the penis.

It's about male privilege.

Show me a mtf, in the media, who doesn't inherently exhibit that and I'll show my bottom on the Town Hall steps.