To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

Today, both adults in this household wore a medium men's tshirt and large mens jogging bottoms. What sex are we?

itsall Really? You have so little faith in men as well? And no women have ever been convicted for sex crimes?

avirgin you're not registering the point. Any gendered person can do any one of those things in any combination, or indeed to none of them. However, if you're refusing to acknowledge that someone who is presenting as a woman so looks like someone would call "she" wouldn't be commented on in a men's bathroom I don't think you're being realistic

How do religious rights and transgender right manage to work.

For example a Muslim women and a transgender women get admitted on the same ward. Muslin women are not allowed to share a space with a male and due to transgender women being by law acceptable to share a space.

Who right trump each other

Sorry herm - I meant the original quote before you paraphrased it was actually rather offensive, I didn't think you were saying it. I didn't even notice it til the paraphrase :)

Hermione Wonderful. Someone on the Internet doubting and marginalising my sexuality because I had the audacity to suggest that there's a possibility that some women may not be bastions of purity. Oh, all while casting hideous aspersions at men. Fantastic. Accepting. Truly progressive.

There's plenty of men who get their rocks off intimidating women. I'm not scared of a stereotypical transwoman (the irony) but this relatively new phenomenon of male sex offenders deciding that they are women and then being treated as such is terrifying. I don't trust sex offenders and I don't trust them not to use people's good natures for their own ends, as they already do.

Every little scrap women have has been fought for and I'm happy to support the trans community in order for them to have the safe spaces they would like but I don't agree that women's sex segregated spaces have to be given up in order for that to happen.

lets I'm not getting the feeling that you like women at all!

You have so little faith in men as well? And no women have ever been convicted for sex crimes?

To the lesbians on the thread, do you feel it would be transphobic of you to not allow an MtT to insert their penis in you?

www.dreamindemon.com/community/threads/scotty-vest-shows-off-more-than-his-thong-and-mini-skirt-at-the-park.15365/

beyondreasonably The point I'm making has gone past you there by deliberately choosing not to understand. Your gender is not displayed by your clothing. However. You can choose to express it through clothing. most but not all men will not wear "typically" female clothes

ghost you're being ridiculous, pretending that women are as dangerous to women as men are.

What sex are we?

Ooh, I love games!

I'm going to guess one of you is a man and the other is a woman.

There were also two adults in my house today. I will tell you that one of us is a man and the other a woman.

One of us was lounging around with an old shirt and a pair of joggers and the other one was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

The question is can anybody guess who was wearing what?

The arguments over whether or not trans women constitute a threat miss the point. Clearly many women are uncomfortable with sharing intimate spaces people with penises, however they identify. Why should those women be subjected to discomfort? Why do women always have to make space?

And toilets are a distraction - what about rape crisis centres, women's shelters, or shared sleeping berths on overnight trains? Is there anyone prepared to argue that its a good idea for teenage girls to have to share a swimming pool changing room with an adult man who may or may not be trans, simply because he claims to identify as a man? Most transmen are sexually attracted to women.

I know a woman who was admitted to a psyc ward as she was delusional that all men were out to get her. She was actively afraid of her DH when he visited.
A transwoman was put in the ward with her. Her mh was impacted negatively, but at least the male-person felt validated.

Why does one delusion have priority over another?

kua no, what I don't like is intolerance. Which I now seem to be getting thrown at me?? Interesting.

The thing the cotton ceiling misses is that it is about the absence of a female body as much as it is about the presence of a penis.

If I'm having sex with a woman I want (real) breasts and hips and a vulva.

I think it's okay in most scenarios but there will definitley be some where it's not okay for someone with a penis to be where women will be getting undressed be that a changing room or a toilet.

In my work one man is in the process of transitioning (as far as I can tell, he sometimes wears wigs and sent an email to say he sometimes lives as a woman but it's very 50/50 as to whether he comes in as a woman or man) now I know this person so have no concern with him being in the next cubicle to me. I would however feel awkward if it was a changing room and either one of us were naked.

My issue would be that if this man starts using the women's facilities(toilets or changing rooms) then if another trans person comes in we have to afford them the same rights, I would be even more uncomfortable with a stranger in this situation. Would someone who had suffered abuse or who was the victim of a lot of unwanted attention or a young staff member eg 17 or 18 feel even worse??

Yes it's shit if someone genuinely would rather be the opposite gender and is trying to live their lives like that but I don't think that their wishes and comfort (ie wanting to use the womens bathrooms so they feel included) should be a higher priority than women's right to SEX segregated facilities

As has been said, there is a danger that the 'toilet issue' is just a stepping stone in terms of opening up female only spaces to bio males.

For example I never want to see women's refuges being used by MTF. If a woman escaping male (or female) domestic violence is not allowed to have her age 12+ son with her in a refuge then why would it be okay for an adult MTF (complete with penis) to be there?

Yy herm. A woman is not just the absence of a penis. We are not Not Men.

letsghostsdance

You are a lesbian. You are sexually attracted to women. You argue that MtT are women, in exactly the same way as women. Would you let an MtT penetrate you with their female penis?

In Sweden the public toilets (and changing rooms) tend to be unisex and men have to sit down to use the toilet by law. Personally the only reason I don't want men using the same toilets is because they tend to wee everywhere. What about transgender people who no longer have a penis? Do they have to go next door too? What about people who have more than one set of sex organs, are they excluded? It's hard enough being transgender without having to use the gents where they are more likely to be targeted by neanderthals who are happy to make their lives hell.

Yup, we're pretty intolerant of misinformation such as 'women are as dangerous to women as men' around here.

I'm adding to my list - biology and science are hateful and facts are intolerant.

Have I missed anything?

Bluntness 100 - please could you explain why it's horrible and why it should be pulled?

Today one of us wore a pair of jeans and a jumper with a picture of a dinosaur on. The other one wore jogging bottoms and a t-shirt with a cartoon character on.

Hermione I'm not saying that they are as dangerous. Certainly, men have committed more crimes and I never said they were equally as dangerous. However to suggest that a woman has never looked at another woman in a changing room in that way is fairly ridiculous