To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

itsall yeah okay, we'll clearly that was all just jumped on there. They don't necessarily have to be wearing a dress, I was illustrating a point. They could be wearing anything stereotypically assigned to the female gender. Or have long hair. If they choose. Or be wearing make up. If they choose. There, have I been broad enough now?

I have a couple of shirts that look like they could be men's shirts. They're not however as I bought them from a women's clothes shop.

When I wear these shirts am I dressing like a man? Or am I just wearing a shirt that wouldn't look out of place on a man?

Hermione uuhh, as a lesbian myself I am struggling to see where I've been homophobic. I understand perfectly the difference between sexuality and sex... A lot of people's objections here are based on men trying to "get their rocks off" and get a look at women. The comparison stands.

lets lesbians and bi sexual females are females, that is why they are in female spaces just as heterosexuals. Also you will find old, young ,multiracial, multi religions,. What we have in common is that we are females and that is what unites us.

Not surprised you went down the voyeur route. It is used time and time again but only shows the true views of the op not reality.

I'm tall, I often wear mens clothes as they tend to be long enough. I have short short hair, and tattoos and piercings. If I have no make up on, should I use the men's?

letsghostsdance I don't understand your post

They could be wearing anything stereotypically assigned to the female gender. Or have long hair. If they choose. Or be wearing make up. If they choose

Are you saying that I'd a man does the above then they are a woman?

avirgin sorry, but this is ridiculous. I'm sure everyone owns a number of typically neutral clothes, but most but not all people will typically on most days wear clothes that are stereotyped to their gender.

IAmAmy I struggle with it too.

'Feeling' like a woman or a man has never been explained to me in terms that don't involve appearance.

I too hope common sense will one day prevail.

When a young boy can go, 'do you know what? I quite like wearing dresses and having long shiny hair'

And no one bats an eyelid or suggests that's what girls have/do and that he has to pretend to be the opposite sex in order for it to be acceptable that he does that.

I don't feel threatened by lesbians, they don't commit over 95% of sexual assaults.

I do feel threatened by males, who DO commit over 95% of sexual assaults.

I know three transwomen, I'll call them whatever name they want, use she and her when talking about them. Never gave it much thought, people are people, right? Live and let live, whatever makes you happy if it's not harming anyone else.

But I was abused as a child. I'm not that fond of penises. I'm also, having looked into it, not that fond of some elements of transactivism - such as those parts that argue that by not liking penises I'm personally responsible for the oppression of transwomen and it's my duty to get over it for their benefit.

Out of the three transwomen I know, one I don't know well enough to have an opinion, one is very non-threatening, one I would not want to share women-only space with, because as a man or a woman she can be intimidating, and has accidently flashed me (short skirt, very male way of sitting).

Don't know what the answer is to the public toilet issue. I'd be uncomfortable with unisex toilets.

They could be wearing anything stereotypically assigned to the female gender.

Such as?

Or have long hair.

You do realise that there are cis men with long hair, right? Do they get abuse when they go into a mens toilets? I have no idea to be honest.

Or be wearing make up.

But not all women wear makeup either. So why would a trans woman automatically be wearing it?

Plenty of men have long hair and wear make up, and all should be free to.

If it is ok for a transwoman not to want to be in an intimate space next to a penis owner, then it is ok for a woman not to want to be in an intimate space with a penis owner

This.

"most but not all people will typically on most days wear clothes that are stereotyped to their gender"

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark that a lot of people here will disagree with that one.

ghost I find it hard to believe you're gay if you think that lesbian and bi women get off on looking at naked women when they don't realise it, but ok.

I'm not aware of there being any cases of lesbian or bi women secretly filming women . Countless ones of men.

Lesbians aren't a threat to other women. Men are,

A lot of people's objections here are based on men trying to "get their rocks off" and get a look at women

Because this is something men do (along with being violent) It is not generally something that women do.

This is a horrible thread, I really hope no trans women are reading it. I think it should be pulled. 😞

beyondreasonably that's why I put in all those conditions. Would love to actually go and do a survey on the street. Have probably represented that one pretty accurately

but most but not all people will typically on most days wear clothes that are stereotyped to their gender.

Do they really?

Most people I know (men and women) wear things like jeans and t-shirts on an every day basis. Last time I checked neither of those articles of clothing are "stereotyped to their gender".

TheUnworthy I completely agree. This idea that you can be a boy/girl and feel you have the "personality" of the other sex or whatnot. It always seems to boil down to feeling you have traits which are stereotypically associated with the other sex, due to the gender roles society proscribes. All should be free to dress as they please, have whatever interest they please and encouraging those who deviate from what's deemed acceptable for their sex to feel they're the wrong sex is quite dangerous I think.

"lesbian and bi women get off on looking at naked women when they don't realise it"

Hmm, that's rather offensive, isn't it herm...

bluntness there's a delicious irony between your user name, and your belief that women shouldn't be allowed to discuss issues that matter to them in case it hurts the feelings of some hypothetical lurking males.

I'm sick of people giving it the whole 'I know a transwoman and she's no threat' argument. You knowing a few trans women doesn't mean anything. I know several too and I fully support their right to identify however they like. But, as people have said endlessly, that DOESN'T mean I have to put aside my rights to make me not a transphobe. That's just a lazy argument that ignores vital context.

Stop saying that we think all trans women are rapists. We just don't. There are so many similar situations (e.g. Involving children) where we have certain rules in place to prevent the odd person who has evil intentions, because it's worth pissing off some trans adults to keep other adults and children safe from harm from those odd few dodgy ones.

beyond I said "if you think that lesbian and bi women" with a clear implication that I don't think queer women are all voyeurist perverts