To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

since Leone? someone! gah.

Nope i cant read anymore

The misrepresentation is just too much for me

msjamie because you can't tar everyone with the same brush?? Let's ban all teenage boys from driving, they're more likely to have an accident. Sound logical to you?

brave I am very sorry that happened to you both. I haven't seen anyone hear advocating violence against trans folk.

But saying that TW aren't women (that's what the "trans" is about) is not an act of violence. It is stating fact.

Ex wife I don't think anyone has said penis' are inherently violent, men as a sex are though. Do you dispute that?

or, to put it another way. it's all about the toilets whilst not being about the toilets. it's only about toilets to a point, unless toilets are important to you in which case it IS about toilets. unless you have an AGENDA in which case oh I don't know. make something up.

There's always so much discussion about trans women on these threads and not really a lot about trans men.

Let's just say a trans man decides they are going to use the men's toilets because they identify as a man. The trans man in question has made no effort to transition to a man and still looks like a woman.

What would happen if one day this trans man is sexually assaulted whilst using the mens toilets? What do you think the general reaction would be?

Do you think people would leap to the defense and say that she may have been born a woman and look like a woman but she identifies as a man therefore has every right to be in the mens toilets? Or do you think it is much more likely the reaction would be "well what did she expect", "she was asking for it by being in the mens toilets", etc?

Call me cynical but I have a feeling it is far more likely to be the latter.

exWife who has been hateful or anti transgender?

Let's ban all teenage boys from driving, they're more likely to have an accident.

With driving, they first have to pass a test. They have to have insurance. If they are seen to be driving dangerously they will lose their licence. Things are out in place to mitigate the risks.

In the same way female spaces are out in place to mitigate the risk of male violence.

Transwoman are women. That is what intersectionality is for.

itsall Going to have to agree to disagree then. I've seen MtF (saying MtT is pretty degrading tbh) who pass perfectly. Hell, I can even think of drag queens who pass, never mind actual transwomen

but, Its, not all men are sex offenders. and no, I don't agree that men are inherently violent. do you?

Post Op is fine with me. The issue is simply that a penis doesnt belong in a penis free space, once the penis is removed then I have no problem with using the womens loos.

exWifebeginsat40 if the prnisrs aren't inherently violent and are completely safe then what's the problem.

Trans women can use the mens.

Women on her are being told to essentially 'sit down and shut up' because it's unlikely a trans woman will attack you.

Well I'm that case, as the rate of violent crime is the same for men and transwomen, then what are they moaning about? They must be safe in the mens.

And while we are at it can we ban the term 'cis'.

I'm not a cis anything. I am a woman.

That's just offensive. There are transwomen and women, transmen and men.

laurie so a large number of women have to have their safety compromised so a tiny number of TW can feel better?

And by your logic TW could use the male loos and we just prosecute anyone who harasses and assaults them.

well where should these women go when they need support?

Which women? The trans women who might think they should be able to work in a rape crises centre? Or the women who have been raped and are seeking support?

boundaries the easiest way to see that is probably to look at the user names on the Spartacus thread. some of them have been hateful and anti-transgender. hope this helps.

Transwomen are not women, that's what the "trans" prefix means and this is what facts and biology are for.

itsall the other examples I can think of that compare are all racial so I don't want to say them and get taken out of context. Fill in the example yourself. They compare very well.

How about after the toilets and before the open plan changing rooms?

And why?

I thought the argument for trans women using female toilets was that they are at risk of violence in the men's and wouldn't feel safe.

Therefore shouldn't the same argument be applied to open plan changing rooms? If trans women aren't safe in the mens toilets then they aren't safe in mens changing rooms are they?

Still not really any consistency going on here.

For all those saying that only female-born women should access female toilets, please answer me this:

• What do you think is going to happen if a man goes into the women's toilet from a legal point of view? I mean are you thinking the police should be called or there should be some sort of check on the door? Because this is what I don't get. A public toilet is not a prison, or a rape crisis centre or a hospital. Nobody checks who goes in or out. Nobody is going to come running if you say there is a man in the women's toilet. Lots of toilets are unisex, whether you like it or not. It is not enforceable or practical to make this is a "rule". Surely if someone really wants to go into a toilet with the aim of assaulting women, that is not the sort of person who would think, "oh, there's a rule against that? In that case I won't do it".

A mtt feels they are female and believes that due to this they have the right to use women's sex segregated spaces.

A woman feels a mtt is not female and believes they do not have the right to use women's sex segregated spaces.

A man feels a mtt is not female and so believes they have the right to use men's sex segregated spaces.

Etc etc. We can all feel and believe different things. It generally doesn't matter until those feelings and beliefs directly impact on other people. Empathy and compassion for others is not incompatible with segregating services for biological requirements.

I think I might just keep on saying it:

Trans is an umbrella term, it doesn't mean one "thing".

Ah, ok, exWife, I thought you meant on this thread. Thanks.

avirgin or how about the trans women who have been raped?