Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

i used to be a strict vegan, I didn't impose that on anyone, I had no right.

I have never been to a works Xmas do that is actually a celebration of Xmas as a Religious festival. A huge amount of people in the UK celebrate Xmas but have no belief in Jesus at all.

It's just a focal point in the calendar when people traditionally buy presents and go out for an annual meal and often...a big piss up. Not that Muslims object to other people's festivals anyway.

If this was your work Christmas party, YANBU. I wouldn't pander to this if it was a Christmas party for everyone. She can choose whether she wants to go or not.

The fact that you only revealed half way through the thread that this is not your Christmas party but a small team bonding meal is a bit drip feedy to be honest.

I don't agree with her attitude, but at the same time being a vegan you could do the same and refuse to eat anywhere that serves meat. Everyone has their own views of what they find morally objectionable, and what they don't want to be around. Everyone has their own line that they don't wish to cross. I personally wouldn't want to go to a strip club or burlesque show for a work meal. And I'm sure others will argue it's not comparable, but it is if you feel that strongly against it.

For the sake of team bonding which is the purpose of the meal I would suck it up this once and go to an Indian or Turkish with a BYOB policy.

Skipped to the end but my first thought was, if she is muslim why is she celebrating Xmas at all? Of course she should be invited along but no way should she dictating. That would be like attending an Islamic celebration and dictating terms.

Yes some people won't feel that pressure, but many would feel a social obligation.

So instead you want to put the social obligation on the Muslim to attend an occasion where alcohol will be served?

I don't think alcohol's a part of working life, but it's embedded within British culture and therefore avoiding it all the time is a little bit unreasonable as there's a balance to be struck in order to get along with people socially.

But the balance always has to be struck by the minority?

So you're saying, she should suck it up and attend even if she doesn't want to?

Bogey your comment has already been well-addressed by PP, please have a read.

Believeitornot - you said to define uncomfortable. If she believes her religion or culture doesn't allow for her to be there, she would feel uncomfortable in a place that serves alcohol. Whether it's legal or not.

In the case I mentioned before, there would be great ramifications for these women if they were spotted in a place that served alcohol. Some of them saw it as a point of pride that they had never been in such a place.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong in the greater scheme of things, and don't deny that it's bloody annoying for everyone else. But if it's an event paid for by the company it would be unfair having it in a place that all but one person can go to.

If you're paying for it yourselves, that's different. She can opt out.

You really, really, really need to discuss this with HR and preferably a diversity
/discrimination expert before trying to introduce alcohol into this meal. I agree it seems difficult but if the alternative is excluding someone on the basis of religion you might inadvertantly get into very bad territory here.

Fwiw our Christmas do is always in a restaurant run by people from a Muslim country that DEFINITELY serves alcohol. And on one memorable occasion a definitely not modestly dressed belly dancer. But other Muslims have nothing to do with how this woman feels and her religious rules.

And this is why drip feeding threads are annoying, because you're going to get loads of people who've only read the first post still saying "why is she going to a Christmas party if she's such a strict Muslim?"

Ahickie

I guess my argument would probably be that we all do things we don't necessarily enjoy for the sake of getting along socially. I'd rather go to an all-vegan restaurant but I'll relax for the sake of hanging out with people. I don't see why this is any different.

Alpha it wasn't a "drip feed". The nature of a conversation is that misinterpretations are cleared up via discussion. I thought my OP was clear, other people saw it differently so I clarified. There was no intended "big reveal" or attempt to mislead.

OP, it sounds like she doesn't have an issue with not attending the dinner, but you feel her absence will affect the success of the aim of the meal, is that right?

Note: not to scale

I'd tell her to go swivel!

I don't think it's too awful to have to have one alcohol-free meal / night out. You can always organise a private party or drinks from another day.

The OP has said that management will only pay for one meal.

It's always been the social norm in this country, that after working their guts out all year, workers get to let their hair down and have a few drinks at the Christmas Party.
I suppose you could argue it's part of our tradition
Why should OP and her colleagues have to forgo that?

OP, it sounds like she doesn't have an issue with not attending the dinner, but you feel her absence will affect the success of the aim of the meal, is that right?

I think when it's a meal designed to help us communicate and get along better as a team, her absence would have a detrimental effect yes.

It's like if you were having trouble at home with family, and decided to have a nice meal out to relax, and one person refused to come. It would reflect badly on them.

raw I didn't say anything about payment plans/options.

Okay this isn't a Christmas party, but a team bonding meal. Then yes you do need to go somewhere without alcohol. Not to means you will not achieve what you want, and could even be seen as legally discriminatory.

A teacher friend of mine had a colleague like this. Refused to go anywhere that served alcohol and would be very put out if they organised anything she couldn't/wouldn't attend.

It only stopped when an older muslim joined their team and told her she was being ridiculous. Is your colleague a revert/convert by any chance?

And those saying muslims don't celebrate Christmas... they don't celebrate it but Islam recognises Jesus as a minor prophet so there it is entirely acceptable to recognise Christmas

Anybody else find this thread is making them crave a glass of wine?

I can empathize with being frustrated, but I think it would be unreasonable not to accommodate her. I also think its unreasonable to compare adhering to religious beliefs with veganism.

A team meal should be inclusive. If you're struggling for a venue, maybe ask her for suggestions?

If you and your colleagues also want to drink, then surely you can go out for post-work drinks together? Maybe management would even give you a small tab somewhere (i.e. you're not asking them to pay for two meals - just a meal at one venue and a drink at another).

A teacher friend of mine had a colleague like this. Refused to go anywhere that served alcohol and would be very put out if they organised anything she couldn't/wouldn't attend.

It only stopped when an older muslim joined their team and told her she was being ridiculous. Is your colleague a revert/convert by any chance?

And those saying muslims don't celebrate Christmas... they don't celebrate it but Islam recognises Jesus as a minor prophet so there it is entirely acceptable to recognise Christmas

When I was younger it was often a common problem, not because of Muslim restrictions but childcare arrangements, time commitments etc etc
There was always a simple solution, we all met up after work for a coffee/tea/muffin at local Costa (or where ever) had a good chat for an hour or two and then some went home the rest went on to a restaurant and then some went home and a few went on to a late night venue. Every was happy and we all bonded in the ways that suited us.

Your dilemma seems to have become over complicated.

I also think its unreasonable to compare adhering to religious beliefs with veganism.

Can I ask why? I was brought up by an atheist parent and a spiritual parent. To me, my belief in animal rights is as reasonable as anyone's religion.