Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

I worked with a guy like this years ago ( there were several other Muslim members of staff but it was just this guy that really objected to alcohol) after much debate and hours of thinking of somewhere to go we ended up doing a dinner at someone's house without alcohol ( we all put in money and a few of us cooked) it was a total pain in the arse and to top it all after making such a masdive fuss he didn't bloody turn up!!

Wow, how entitled is she? I have been on loads of work do's with Muslims and they just don't drink. I am pretty sure the Qu'ran is not so prescriptive that she can't sit at a table with alcohol on. Either she wants to socialise with you guys or she doesn't, end of

Well... she could invite you to her house? Or she could be the one to plan the meal and you could go to a pub afterwards?

But I really think her demands are incredibly unreasonable.

Contacting HR is certainly a very good idea.

Good luck :)

Does this also mean that she can't go to supermarkets?

Yes of course there are differences. Saying someone is a Muslim is like saying someone is a Christian. That can mean they are CofE, evangelical, a devout Catholic, or many other things. It is the same with Islam.

I also follow the same opinion as the girl you work with, so not only do i not drink but I won't sit with people drinking either. This is not because I want to stop people drinking but because I believe Islam forbids me from sitting with people who are drinking.
The result is, I don't go on work nights out, Xmas parties etc. I wouldn't expect people to change their behaviour for me, especially in a non-Muslim country.
There have been times tho, when someone doing the organising has stated that everyone is happy not to drink so I must come. So I do, while feeling mortified. Could this be the case with girl you work with?
I will say though that if there is something I have to attend due to work i will be quite clear about my feelings an alcohol. I don't see why it has to be part of working life.

You can't have it in a place where everyone apart from one person will feel comfortable

Define uncomfortable? We do a lot of this consideration at work. But to find somewhere that meets one persons' requirements and might well make the rest of the group uncomfortable then raises the question?

Alcohol is not illegal in this country. So if someone wants to drink it but they feel self conscious because someone at the other end of the table might object, then that person is uncomfortable.

I think we have to be very careful about what tolerance, acceptance and respect of each other's culture and religion actually means.

To me, it is about accepting the social norms of others - you don't have to participate but you accept them and you don't force other people (which is what is happening here) to bend to them.

If we cannot have an open discussion about this sort of thing in the workplace, it results in resentment. Eg people grumbling about this one person when it might be better for an open discussion with them and others.

If this is real and not just trying to create a shitstorm of 'They don't run the country, why can't they learn to integrate', this has never been my experience among the hundreds of Muslims I've known as friends and colleagues. They just don't drink alcohol (although I know a few more Westernised ones who do), there is nothing to say that they can't be on premises where it's being sold or consumed. Our next door but one Muslim neighbours held a BBQ in the summer and had no problem with guests bringing booze. None of my Muslim colleagues have ever objected to attending leaving dos in pubs. I've had alcohol scanned through the checkout by countless women wearing hijabs and both my local corner shops/off licenses are run by Muslims.

I organised a group meal where one of my attendees was a very strict Muslim. We kept everyone happy by having a separate table where I sat with her and a few others who weren't fussed about drinking. Other team members dropped by for a chat between courses and then returned to the boozers' table. It turned out to be a surprisingly relaxed way of doing things. Maybe try something like that?

Might add, that since it's a Christmas do, if she's so strict that she can't even witness alcohol on the table, why would she want to come anyway?

If you really don't want to have the hassle of challenging her (and I can understand why you want to keep the peace with a colleague) have a quick dinner and then leg it to the pub afterwards.

Although, I don't know how much of a strict Muslim she can be if she wants to come and celebrate Christmas with you, tbh.

There have been times tho, when someone doing the organising has stated that everyone is happy not to drink so I must come. So I do, while feeling mortified. Could this be the case with girl you work with?
I will say though that if there is something I have to attend due to work i will be quite clear about my feelings an alcohol. I don't see why it has to be part of working life.

But, to flip this, can you not see that everyone else feels responsible if you don't come? If you make it clear that you won't be around alcohol, everyone else is made to feel guilty and under pressure to avoid alcohol in order to include you.

Yes some people won't feel that pressure, but many would feel a social obligation.

I don't think alcohol's a part of working life, but it's embedded within British culture and therefore avoiding it all the time is a little bit unreasonable as there's a balance to be struck in order to get along with people socially.

The OP said this isn't the main Xmas do but a smaller gathering of part of the team designed to let them get to know each other etc.

OK, tiring of the "muslims don't do this" stuff now. This is not an attack on muslims, as a thread about a MIL isn't an attack on all MILs. Can we please move the fuck on.

only for a thread like this to come along that invites people to make comments like 'Why is she going to a Christmas party anyway?'

My intention wasn't for those comments and I have already spoken out against them.

Maybe she's making an excuse and just doesn't want to come and there you all are thwarting her by bending over backwards to find a non alcohol restaurant.

Green

I agree with Tragically. If the point of the outing is to bond, then don't make it a restaurant. Go and play at something! My husband just organized an "escape room" activity (it's a puzzle solving thing) for his team in the morning and then back for sandwiches at the office, a selection of veggie, meaty, halal ...

Maybe - depending on your line of work - you could go and do something of interest to you all? Many venues are falling over themselves to provide this sort of outing for companies. See a show? Look round a brewery chocolate factory?

Get everyone to bring in their suggestions, as you do have a main Christmas works do to go to as well, you could do something quite different.

Sorry but if she doesn't want to drink that's fine she doesn't have to but there is no way she can impose an alcohol ban of the rest of you, that is absurd. If she doesn't want to see you all drinking then she needs to stay at home for goodness sake. I would never impose my dietary requirements on an entire group - I'd be too embarrassed!!!

As a Muslim, I've never seen this. I have always attended extremely alcoholic (City law firm) parties, and would never think of questioning this. Why should I interfere with others' fun? It can be a bit galling to share the alcohol bill (£60 when my Diet Coke cost £2 grr) but that's life. If a Muslim feels that uncomfortable, they should just stay at home.

Not sure how the lady involved can do this - does she not feel at all guilty! Even my very religious mum doesn't bat an eyelid and will happily dine with alcohol-drinkers. The lady is giving us all a bad name. 😡

Op, i have a good and open relationship with my work colleagues and i don't think i make them feel like this, so might say 'oh no, you know how boring i am, go and have a nice time and I'll bring in the paracetomol the next day'. But even if they did feel awkward, what can i do? There are any number of reasons someone might choose not to socialise with work colleagues.

The op also said "we're never allowed to go ..." - so has this been an issue for some time?

The lady is giving us all a bad name.

I don't think that at all. I've worked with many ladies (not yet a man, as far as I know) who've observed Islam and this has never happened before. It's no reflection on a diverse group of people, it's only about her, and the mention of the religion was seriously only to explain why.

MsHoolies sure if you don't know any Muslims that strict then it can't possibly be true? Report it if you don't believe it. My 2 married neighbours are both Muslim and happen to be doctors on my ward. The Husband will go to the Christmas do and have non alcoholic drinks. The wife won't go anywhere with alcohol. She chooses not to come. No big deal.