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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

517 replies

AChristmasCactus · 15/11/2016 16:38

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

OP posts:
fuzzywuzzy · 15/11/2016 17:31

Have you posted this before op? I'm sure I've read a pretty much identical thread here.

Personally as a Muslim who's worked my entire life amongst non Muslim in some very boozy culture offices, I simply don't go to the office Xmas party.

I've never met or heard of a Muslim who's demanded their dietary requirements take precendent over everyone else.

When we go for office lunches/dinners I pick the veg or fish option. During working hours nobody is allowed to be drunk anyway, so work colleagues don't tend to get paralytic during those.

What would colleague do if you chose a regular venue for the Xmas/team bonding meal? How is she managing to make her choice take precendent above everyone else?

HeckyWithTheGoodBear · 15/11/2016 17:31

What about somewhere for afternoon tea?

harderandharder2breathe · 15/11/2016 17:32

OP I didn't mean ONLY vegan options! Just making sure there was something in the menu you could happily eat

MissVictoria · 15/11/2016 17:33

To clarify my earlier post i wasn't suggesting there was a vegan friendly way of slaughtering meat, but that in the majority if not all halal slaughter houses, animals welfare is none existent, in favour of keeping the meat "clean".
How stunning the animal so it's not conscious and aware of what is happening and able to violently flail and hurt itself makes it "unclean" i don't know, but i know even as a meat eater i'm upset by halal slaughter methods. I don't choose Halal meat in supermarkets, and i won't knowingly choose it in restaurants either. I was under the impression til recently all places selling halal had to advertise the fact, but it seems some KFC etc use it as standard now without informing customers.
My point was as a vegetarian or vegan, all slaughter is "evil" but when there's a choice between ways to do it with minimal distress to the animal, or to do it the halal way which has no regard for the animal at all, one is clearly worse than the other.

HackAttack · 15/11/2016 17:33

Pmsl at the poster claiming social workers are 'achingly hip' and pc. Been in the profession nearly ten years and not met one social worker like that!! Our staff nights out are suitably sweary and drunken.

Original poster
AChristmasCactus · 15/11/2016 17:33

OK, at the end of the day you can all choose whether to believe or not but I'm not going to keep defending myself.

I've not posted before.

Some good advice here about alternative venues and I'll take that on board, thanks to everyone who's replied.

OP posts:
FannyWisdom · 15/11/2016 17:33

Easy.
Go round her house for tea.
Drinks after.

Gwan invite all the team.

layercake9 · 15/11/2016 17:33

She sounds like a diva and a hypocrite. What is she doing working with a group of infidels (kafirs) anyway, and gasp working within inappropriate proximity with kafir men?......

NoFuckingRoomOnMyBroom · 15/11/2016 17:33

Therr is no way I could tolerate my colleagues without alcohol, fuck that. YADNBU.

MrsRyanGosling15 · 15/11/2016 17:34

YANBU op why should one person dictate to the entire group? I really think someone needs to speak up. You can't spend your entire time working with someone pussy footing around them. You are an adult, if you aren't comfortable with something then speak up.

ishallconquerthat · 15/11/2016 17:34

I would say that my religion forbids alcohol free parties, so I'm unable to go to a non-alcohol serving place ;)

SpunkyMummy · 15/11/2016 17:34

harser

But can strict Muslims eat food that has been prepared in LANs that have been used to cook pork before? Or plates used to serve pork?

If that's the case going to a vegetarian restaurant wouldn't help the OP.

OP, it might be smart to write everybody a polite email to explain why you can't organise it. But that you're open to suggestions.

ChocChocPorridge · 15/11/2016 17:35

I think it needs to be raised that this is unreasonable.

I lived in Malaysia for a while, and there, yes, if you go to a supermarket then you have to buy pork and alcohol in a special section, and it mustn't go on the main till - a muslim cashier will leave, and the whole till is wiped down if you do! (although it's all in the same shopping basket - so it's a bit of a technicality)

In Singapore, also with the same supermarket brand, you can buy alcohol etc, and put it through the same till, even with a Malay cashier (it's sealed after all).

Perhaps a compromise can be reached with an activity she joins in with, then she skips the meal? Or there's a dry end of the table? It's only fair to follow the social customs of a country, and in this one, drinking at a Christmas do is just about as normal as it gets.

sizeofalentil · 15/11/2016 17:35

I used to work with several muslim women who wouldn't step foot in a place where alcohol was served - because they said their families would disapprove / their peers would find it unseemly that a single muslim would be spotted in there. They said it wasn't enough that they weren't drinking, their communities would find it shocking/distasteful if they saw them their.

This was over 10 years ago and the women were from Somalia, if I remember correctly, so this could be a cultural thing.

I don't think it is too bad tbh. Put it this way… When I worked in an all-male office they wanted to have their Christmas party in a strip club. I obviously didn't feel comfortable with this, so the party had to be held somewhere where there was no naked, gyrating women. The Christmas party is meant to be inclusive of everyone (if it has been organised by your employer). You can't have it in a place where everyone apart from one person will feel comfortable.

I don't think it's too awful to have to have one alcohol-free meal / night out. You can always organise a private party or drinks from another day.

HackAttack · 15/11/2016 17:35

Op I'm afraid i don't have a great deal of advice other than I agree consulting with hr would be sensible because you shouldn't all be dictated to by one person. There should be fair options for everyone. Also tell the trollhunters to piss off Smile

Trifleorbust · 15/11/2016 17:36

No need for some of the snide, borderline racist comments on here. She is entitled to be any kind of Muslim she wants without people attacking her for it. I agree with the OP that on this issue she is in the wrong, but people don't need to be nasty.

CrowyMcCrowFace · 15/11/2016 17:36

I live in a Muslim country. One of my close group of friends (also a UK expat) is a very, very observant Muslim & has said she won't attend any social gathering where alcohol is served. So it is a thing - I see no reason to doubt op! We generally get together for tea or a meal at someone's house - often the anti booze friend hosts. However, if some of the group decide to go to a bar, which is a bit of an undertaking in a nominally dry country!... anti booze friend just teases us about our next day headaches & wishes us a lovely evening. Because, y'know, she's not a dick. I think it's different if it's a work event your colleague can't miss, & then she should be fully included, but if a jolly, then best thing as pp have said might be a meal somewhere halal, an agreement that there will be no drinking actually at the table, & then off to a bar afterwards? Apologies for lack of paragraphs; my phone hates me.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 15/11/2016 17:36

I don't see why on earth she can't go wherever and just stick to soft drinks.
I lived in Muslim countries for many years and I never came across this sort of thing - we have been offered wine in Muslim households with a meal, although the hosts weren't drinking it themselves.

Is it the girl herself who is insisting on this, or other people who think she will be offended and are bending over backwards? Some people do mistakenly think that offence will be taken when it won't.

If it's the girl herself who is insisting, then I think I'd politely tell her that you're sorry, but a bevvie or two is normal at Christmas do's for most of us, and if it's going to offend her then she's not in the least obliged to come.

Topseyt · 15/11/2016 17:36

I just wouldn't pander to this at all. One person cannot dictate to the whole team.

I would just pick a good restaurant with a wide ranging menu with some vegetarian and vegan options. Alcohol will be served to those who want it, and soft drinks will be available for those who don't.

She is welcome to join you or not, as she wishes.

Seriously, I think she is being too dictatorial and you are trying far too hard to take on the impossible task of pleasing everyone.

Chrisinthemorning · 15/11/2016 17:37

That's crazy. As long as your Christmas do can cater to her, as in provide non alcoholic drink and food plus halal (or other food that is suitable for her dietary requirements) then have it where the majority want to go. She needn't come if she's still uncomfortable!
Personally I would be uncomfortable with a forcibly dry Christmas do!
Edited to add our Christmas do is always a weekend evening, if it's a weekday lunch no one at our place would be drinking as it would be unacceptable to have had a drink then carry on working due to our work.

Original poster
AChristmasCactus · 15/11/2016 17:37

No need for some of the snide, borderline racist comments on here. She is entitled to be any kind of Muslim she wants without people attacking her for it. I agree with the OP that on this issue she is in the wrong, but people don't need to be nasty.

Definitely agree Trifle. This is about the person, not about a religion that's made up of a hugely diverse group of people with their individual behaviour and views.

OP posts:
brasty · 15/11/2016 17:37

I know a very devout Muslim who will not go to a pub. But a restaurant with alcohol is fine. It is about the primary purpose. And since the primary purpose is food, she is fine with this. Don't go along with this.

MrsKoala · 15/11/2016 17:37

I don't understand the 'i know lots of muslims and none are like this so this can't be true' comments. There are obviously levels of strictness in Islam like there are in other religions (i know Jewish and Christian people who all observe in differing degrees).

I used to work at a Uni which has a huge Muslim student body, particularly in the courses i recruited for. We had a problem because a percentage of them wouldn't attend meetings in the Student Union because there was a bar there. On the open days the family would make this clear and wouldn't attend tours or talks in the union either. The uni made a separate non alcohol union next door. So there are people that strict.

booklooker · 15/11/2016 17:37

I started a similar thread on 'Living Overseas'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/living_overseas/2748403-Not-sure-whether-to-post-here-or-AIBU

The big difference being that I live in the Middle East, though drinking alcohol is not illegal.

We decided to go non-alcohol to include everyone on this occasion.

But I think that there will be times when we go to alcohol serving places in the future.

HeyRobot · 15/11/2016 17:37

I think after I left a bring your own restaurant opened up and they had a room for parties that they used to book as it was completely separate, then to the pub after for anyone who wanted to.