Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

Yanbu. I don't understand why she feels the need to control to that extreme where you all go.

You need to find somewhere suitable for everyone, not just one.

The issue is about one person dictating the Christmas meal

I had experience of this in one job to the extent quite a lot of us went and had our own Xmas meal and therefore spoiling the whole point of the bloody meal.
(Woman said that all but a few of favourite restaurants made her ill and she couldn't eat anywhere else - they were also close to her house)

Make a list of a few places - as long as they have vegan/veggie options and then one that doesn't serve alcohol (good luck with that McDonald's?) and let the majority pick

Then have a Xmas lunch of some sort

It's everyone meal - it costs them money, time, babysitters blah blah so it's not fair to ask people to compromise THAT much

They can't have an Xmas party that excludes an individual because of their chosen faith. So everyone has to suffer.

^^ wow and what constitutes a religion? Can I set up my own tomorrow and which precludes the walking on both legs, you have to hop, we cant have the blinds open in the day because we believe we are aliens ( like Scientologists) and we may be seen and taken back home to our planet? Colleagues cant drink tea in my presence and I have to cover up my nose, because its deemed dirty and offensive?

I work in a very diverse team including many Muslims (Including a couple who drink). Our team dos are always in clubs and bars. However our client group is made up of similarly diverse young people and a lot of unmarried Muslim women wouldn't be allowed out in a mixed group at all, let alone to licenced premises.

It seems hard that the girl should miss out but I do think the majority preference should prevail.

acatcalledjohn

do you really think the woman could/would sue her employers for not organising halal dinners?

Come on, that's just ridiculous.

She doesn't want to attend, so allow her not to attend.

Simple.

She's not inflicting or imposing her beliefs though. She's not saying everyone should agree with her.

She's saying - I won't go to somewhere where alcohol is served. If you can't provide a venue that doesn't or you're unwilling to as everyone else wants to drink then that is up to her if she doesn't want to; she won't go.

And that may lead to her feeling excluded and that may not. It doesn't mean she's imposing her views on anyone. You either try to accommodate or you don't. You can take the risk she'll feel excluded or you don't.

Can't say I've ever met a Muslim who would expect everyone else to conform to their beliefs.

I have to wonder if the op would be trying to accommodate freegans, fruitarians, anti capitalists and anarchists (I have known a few) on their Christmas bonding event?

I have a Muslim colleague and she always comes out with us. She'll eat a veggie meal and drink orange squash. She's the life and soul of the party! She's never dream of dictating where we can or can't go.

Thisjustinno

Completely agree. Otherwise you risk imposing your own beliefs on someone who doesn't want to be in the presence of alcohol.

I worked with a Muslim girl a few years ago who made exactly the same point.
They'd converted our work social club bar into an open plan thing together with the main canteen food service area and eating seating area for everyone.

She wouldn't go in the lunch room at all because it has alcohol served at one (very far away) end (with a shutter down until the evening) and made a big deal about how she was being discriminated against.

Back then I sympathised with her but now I think I wouldn't. (Not that I work there any more. I miss hot lunches at work!)

Ahickey I've re-read the thread and my interpretation is that the woman in question has said explicitly that unless the halal/no alcohol options are adhered to then she won't attend.

She's perfectly within her rights to make this choice.

However, I think this stance has, not unreasonably led the OP and others in the team to consider (apologies if I am incorrect here OP) if making a choice not to conform to these stipulations is not being appropriately inclusive (especially in light of this being a team building event).

My opinion is that no it is not.

Insisting on extending her dietary choices onto everyone else as a condition of attending is not something every other member of the team should feel obligated to do.

As such the choice imho is either to book a venue where there is a suitably diverse menu that is inclusive for all and accept if she feels unable to accept the dietary choices of others she won't attend or alternatively to book an activity that does not require food/drink.

WLF

Are you a lawyer?

It's either MacDonald's or a greasy spoon at this rate. Oh but the greasy spoon would serve bacon wouldn't it.

Does she similarly avoid all major supermarkets because they have alcohol for sale etc?

My DH has many Muslim colleagues, some actually drink, some not. I don't think any have a problem with going to restaurants and alcohol being on the premises. We have Hindu friends who are veggie and similarly do not have an issue regarding meat being served, as long as they are not required
to eat it.

I think she is making it very difficult. Does she actually WANT to come?

Ahickie

Your comment about people was extremely generalising, I think you knew what I was getting at.

Does she work with men? Shake their hand? Sit next to them? Eat with others in the lunch room? Does she cover her face?

I'm thinking if she is young, she is just being a mouthy memememe teenager?

Plenty of Muslim women do not shake men's hands. No big deal.

I sympathise with her. If you don't do something because your faith prohibits it, that's one thing. But if you truly and deeply believe that your faith is right and the forbidden thing is in some way morally wrong, then that can be a powerful thing. If I didn't drink because, as a Muslim, I truly believed that alcohol was a terrible thing, then I probably wouldn't want to be in a place where it was served . (I'm not Muslim, but I do have some religious prohibitions).

I do occasionally drink, but I probably wouldn't notice if I was at a dinner with no alcohol. It amuses me slightly how horrified people get at the idea that maybe they might not be able to drink at a social gathering. I haven't drunk at a work function for decades. Admittedly the last decade I've been self-employed though.

Has anyone said to her 'We understand if you prefer not to go, but there is not a restaurant that does not have alcohol, we can arrange a table for non drinkers but that is all?

Her choice whether to go or not.

Is this a digging post by the daily mail?

Doesn't seem real! If it is then it's grossly unfair on everybody. Your colleague could simply restrain.

Would everyone avoid eating in an establishment that sells meat, for the sake of one vegetarian?

"Blimey, how are you getting anyone else to attend a non-alcoholic work meal?!"

This is the case for Christmas meal where I last work. We're not allowed to drink at lunch time (even though I would be clocked off and not working) and the meal had to be lunch time. Because we were paying for ourselves, we all had a veto on the choice of place, which is fair enough I think.

Whilst I'm sure there's a broad range of opinions amongst Muslims (and actually most that I have known would readily attend a restaurant that serves alcohol), 'Islam Today', says Muslims are indeed forbidden from sitting at a table where alcohol is served;

en.islamtoday.net/node/688

We got ticked off by a shop assistant in America for not putting the beers we bought in a bag - like its furtive or something. Against federal law apparently.

I used to work in a crazily international team (Japanese, Muslim, Russian, African, Indian,Greek, Iraqi). Never a single issue like this. Lawyers though and extremely busy so no time to angst about nonsense.