Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

rawsienna

Yes and having a cheeky glass of Malbec ''tis lovely.

Ahickie she has never tried to bow out. I know you're determined to take this woman's side for some reason but inventing things that never happened isn't helping you win the argument.

Like many other posters, I have worked in diverse workplaces. In my last one, the boss was Jewish, his PA was Muslim, and one of the women in the team was Hindu. Everyone got stuck in to organise a super Christmas lunch, the boss, his PA and the Hindu woman all chose veggie options, and the PA drank soft drinks. We did Secret Santa as well. We also had one vegan, and she did find it difficult, but the people who were observant of their religions were no problem at all.

No-one should inflict their beliefs on others, regardless of what they are.

My previous Jewish bosses wouldn't attend team meals as the restaurants weren't kosher.

Funny how people flock to mostly halal curry restaurants and then cry animal welfare when a Muslim woman wants to eat in a halal restaurant.

I think the imposition of beliefs is at the core of this dilemma Ahickey.

How can that be ignored?

It's very important to make work events as inclusive as possible.

However this request goes way beyond that by extending the practices of one person on everyone else.

Is it reasonable to expect a works meal to ensure there are options suitable for everyone to eat? Yes of course it is.

Is it reasonable for someone to say I only eat a raw food diet so everyone has to eat raw food - no it's not.

Can you just imagine being stuck on the London Eye for an hour with this one.....

Sanity was that directed at me for some reason?

Organise a separate unofficial Xmas night out

Eats I think you've explained it a lot more articulately than I have, thank you.

Ahickie

'People'... interesting. Yes, some do. But many don't.

Expecting others to conform to your believes is incredibly intolerant. And agreeing with these demands? That's tolerating intolerance...

OP, it's not my intention to invent things. I'm going by what you have said

It's like if you were having trouble at home with family, and decided to have a nice meal out to relax, and one person refused to come. It would reflect badly on them.

That led me to believe you don't want her to refuse to come. Is this not the case?

Why would she bow out if you are going to places that don't serve alcohol?

There are entitled twats of both sexes, all religions and none.

She's an idiot and frankly if a grown woman wouldn't be allowed to go to a restaurant that serves alcohol then that's her life to sort.

She's an 18 year old adult who has choices and lives in a democracy that supports that choice.

None should be allowing her or anyone else to control the personal choices of other adults at a social function.

It's bad for her and everyone else.

I think it's been made clear that, while I want her to feel comfortable, I don't think her preferences should trump anyone else's, and I think dictating that alcohol can't even be within her line of sight is way too far.

Re. religious dietary requirements vs. veganism.

People adhere to religious dietary requirements as they believe that they are required to do so by a higher power. The OP's colleague believes she is forbidden from attending certain venues.

Vegans make the (in my view, very commendable) moral judgment that it is wrong to eat meat/dairy, and exercise this belief themselves. They don't believe they are forbidden from eating meat, but are exercising a moral choice.

I have never actually encountered a vegan that wouldn't eat in a restaurant that serves meat or dairy, but I'll assume they exist.

I'm not religious myself, but I suspect there is a big difference between feeling that you are prohibited from attending a venue by a higher power, and refusing to attend because of your own moral beliefs. Hopefully a religious vegan can let me know!

Also, there is obviously a legal distinction. Religious groups are protected from discrimination, vegans aren't.

I think the imposition of beliefs is at the core of this dilemma Ahickey

Eats I fully agree. But OP is not very clear on whether this woman is insisting that a halal venue is booked or whether she is simply refusing to attend a non-halal meal. Everyone should have a choice to attend or not.

'People'... interesting.

Yes, Spunky, people. Restaurants are generally frequented by people.

I'd tell her to fuck off tbh. If she wants to organise a meal out for everyone on a muslim festival that fits her criteria then she can crack on. Christmas is meant to be a christian festival, christians don't have a problem with alcohol. She can eat a veggie meal if it's not halal surely?

And I say this as an atheist.

I'm one of those who lives in an ethically diverse area struggling to think of alcohol free restaurants! One restaurant i love doesnt have a licence but is fine to take alcohol to (and people do!) and it has wine glasses/ pint glasses.

The only other one I can think of is a banqueting place, which is strictly no alcohol, but I think that's reasonable enough. The only other places are far more takeaway type places or cafes.

It's not fair but it's the only way your company can avoid a discrimination lawsuit. They can't have an Xmas party that excludes an individual because of their chosen faith. So everyone has to suffer.

Either ignore it and sneak some booze in, or come up with objection after objection to whatever location they choose. Can't have men there, they might rape you. Can't have music, it hurts your ears. Can't have lights, it gives you migraines. Can't be dark, you might fall over.

The other option is to get your group to organise your own Xmas party, invite everyone (including the Muslim woman), for the same time and date the official party is, making it clear the drink will flow. It will send a message to her that it is not acceptable for her to dictate to everyone else this way, and also may end up in a lawsuit for your company anyway as she will feel victimized, being the only person there!

But OP is not very clear on whether this woman is insisting that a halal venue is booked or whether she is simply refusing to attend a non-halal meal. Everyone should have a choice to attend or not.

I think it's very clear that the girl in question has form for demanding something and getting it. So that she'd refuse to attend a non halal restaurant that serves alcohol is reasonable to assume, but not something that has been considered an option by anyone as they'd normally go with her demands to avoid that dilemma from every arising.

Probably for fear of being labelled as racists.

We used to go to an Indian restaurant which didn't serve alcohol. You could, however, nip next door to the owners brothers shop to buy expensive wine and drink it with your meal (plus corkage fee).

Christmas afternoon tea, you're going to have alcohol everywhere at this time of year. Or ask her to suggest somewhere!