Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

I really think you should change this to some sort of team building activity (cringe as it sounds!) followed by tea and cakes in the office. You can't have a team bonding meal in this situation - it isn't going to help. And remember it IS a team bonding effort - not a 'let your hair down' party.

She's talking bollocks to get her own way, she knows no one will bring her up on it for fear of being called a 'racist'!

Thanks for the info Weeds, that's all interesting to know.

The solution is simple, I think two christmas dos are called for here. One at a coffeeshop and one somewhere else..

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but I don't believe anyone has a right to impose them on me by restricting what I put in my mouth.

If this was asked of me I just wouldn't go out of principle.

Like a PP I'd definitely involve HR but I think your best bet is to organise something that takes food/booze out of the equation - go-karting/bowling etc

If your work is paying for the meal then I think it needs to be inclusive. If you pat yourself then do what you want.

Tell her that she can be the designated driver :)

I disagree I think what the group wants must be put first, after all this young lady will have to excersie much give and take in her future career and life so best start now.

I have a Muslim colleague who prays 5 times a day on his prayer mat in a private office. He doesn't drink alcohol at all, he doesn't eat meat and strictly adheres to the fast during Ramadan.

However, he does not ever veto a restaurant or avoid leaving drinks in a pub. He'll simply order a veggie dish (I've known him to go to non-halal grill type restaurants) and not drink alcohol.

Being in venues like that doesn't make him any less of a Muslim.

Perhaps suggest that you feel very strongly about animal welfare and as such cannot bring yourself to eat in a restaurant which serves meat from animals that have bled to death slowly for the sake of a prayer.

She's got a real nerve and I'd argue this is positive discrimination on her part. It should be shared between the team, so a halal restaurant one time, a veggie the next, a standard meat & alcohol serving place.

Sorry if I've missed this, but have you actually found somewhere to eat? I work on a street full of restaurants in a very diverse borough of London and I can't think of a single one that doesn't serve alcohol.

I only asked that out of curiosity because I wouldn't put up with that. I believe people have a right to practice their religion, but don't have a right to dictate other people behave as their religion dictates. That means you go somewhere where the menu caters for all (veggie options, which removes the halal problem) and this lady chooses what to drink. She doesn't get to choose what others drink.

Could we stop with 'imposing beliefs on me' comments?

OP has said it's an issue for her that this woman will not attend if it's not alcohol free. It looks like the Muslim woman is not bothered about not being able to attend.

I know a few Muslim women AND men who won't go to places where alcohol is served. It's not just imposed on women.

Many Muslims don't mind. Some do. They believe that alcohol use is not acceptable (for reasons I can't really argue with and I drink!) and that being somewhere where alcohol is served and contributing to the profits of that place by just having a meal or just a coke is hypocrisy. So it's not just being diffucult or controlling; it's asking them to do something that they feel Religiously, morally and ethically opposed to.

They're entitled to feel that way as we're all entitled to our views and our boundaries.

I was buying wine in a supermarket and the cashier rolled a plastic bag around her and and picked the bottle up as if it were toxic waste. Some people are a bit odd. I assumed she was the equivalent of a Muslim creationist.

In that case she should bow out gracefully instead of expecting the whole team to dance around her. But she hasn't done that, has she?

To me, it is about accepting the social norms of others - you don't have to participate but you accept them and you don't force other people (which is what is happening here) to bend to them.

Look, I may have a slightly harsh opinion about this, however:
My freedom ends where somebody else's freedom starts.
Going to a vegetarian place or not having alcohol might cause a lot of resentement. Because yes, this lady has the right to refuse goingt to places that serve alcohol/aren't halal, but she doesn't have the right to expect the same from anybody else.

Something in 2 parts (halal restaurant and later a pub/bar) might be a good idea, especially because this is meant to be about team building, right?

However, I know several people that would refuse to go to a halal restaurant. Either because they think halal is even worse than consuming 'normal' meat or because they're atheists and would refuse to support a restaurant with such obvious ties to any religion... however, they wouldn't expect the same from others, they simply wouldn't come.

Non-restaurant team building and bonding exercises:

Bowling
Escape rooms
Murder mystery evening
London Eye
After-hours tour of a museum or art gallery (Imperial War Rooms are brill at this)
Vegan cookery session
Paint ball
Pot luck and party games at someone's house

Flogging, it sounds like isn't really being given the option to bow out.

Is this in works time and with the company paying?

If not then I wouldn't be going tbh.

Although I can't imagine bowling without a beer in my hand

She sounds like a bully

Sounds extremely un fair. I have attended do,s with Muslims who do not drink and it has never been a problem if there is a bar or alcohol on the table as she just has soft drinks. I find this hard to believe that she is saying she can't be in a place that serves alcohol ??? I'd query it tbh

I'd be very cautious, going to a halal restaurant isn't necessarily less divisive. There are people that would refuse to contribute to the profits of such a place in any way. Maybe because of concerns about animal welfare, because they're very stout atheists etc... not to mention that there are other religions that may have laws against it (Sikhism, for example).

Sorry I'm assuming you are in London!

Most restaurants will accommodate vegan and halal and most people put up with colleges eating/drinking habits even if it turns their stomachs. But we live in a country where almost every restaurant sells alcohol, no one is forced to drink it but it is normal and accepted here. You can and should make reasonable accommodation but in the end you can't have one person dictating what people do based on their individual extreme peccadilloes.

Would you all go to a naturist cafe if one person said they couldn't go anywhere people wore clothes? Or what if someone said they couldn't go anywhere that allowed gay people in? Or blacks?

She sounds as much fun as our (white, presumably Christian) CEO who has dictated that NO AlCOHOL is to be allowed during work hours which includes the Christmas lunch (only lunch paid for, not dinner). This is even though most people do not return to the office after.......

I see it as controlling, micro managing and just unnecessary. Even most halal Indian/ Bangladeshi restaurants here allow you to BYO so she would be in the presence of it.