School: "no babies allowed"

[Lardeedar]

My DD's primary school insists that for all school meetings, nativity plays and parents evenings, no babies or toddlers are allowed to come. I have a toddler that I look after at home, and I'm perfectly capable of keeping him quiet (phone, iPad and lollipops given rarely enough to be novel seems to work) or failing that, I have curtesy and common sense enough to remove him from the location if he does decide to pipe up!

The school just assumes I have a nan up the road on hand to babysit whenever I want but I don't. These meetings or plays are always 2-3. Both my parents are working, as are my siblings and friends, they have jobs and the two that don't have their own kids and school runs preventing them from helping out.

I'm expecting my third child now and am really upset about all the plays and meetings I'll have to miss because they won't let me in with my newborn. Even if I did have available childcare I resent being obliged to leave my (probably breastfed) newborn for any amount of time for such a stupid policy. Is this normal? Are all schools like this??

I honestly don't understand why some people seem to feel under 5s should be corralled in separate "child friendly" environments (though often the intent seems more to keep their pesky presence away from the adult environments). Because some selfish parents cannot control their children and stop them from spoiling the enjoyment of others. A shrieking, gallivanting child, whether it is at a school play, in a restaurant, in a shop, on public transport or in a cinema to name but a few is stopping others from their enjoyment.

If one of the children's grandparents sat in the audience hollering and heckling the children; I'd fully expect them to be escorted from the premises too, zzzz
I'm still failing to see your point, really. Nobody objects to toddlers in principle; their mere presence is not offensive in itself, but expecting them to be allowed to run around a school hall while children are performing on stage as if they were at soft play is too ridiculous a notion to take seriously, tbh.
This is why the rules are in place, actually. For people like you who don't understand why they have to be.
People have to leave cinema showings that they've paid good money to see because of this sort of nonsense too.

I see your point but other children are likely to spoil it for all and they can hardly "only" invite considerate mothers.
On the other hand, as a working mother I am unlikely to ever be able to attend anything that is not in the evening

Our primary school always did this. I broke the rule once in 14 years - DS was born at the end of November, and as I was breastfeeding him, I sneaked him in for the Christmas shows in mid-December. He slept throughout.

I think it's a good thing; otherwise you would never hear or get peace to see your own child's performance on stage.There are some selfish entitled cows out there, really!!! I am really glad the school had that rule - it was largely because of the lack of space but it's sensible in every way.

The school always produces a DVD of the performances if younger children want to see it.

I do sympathise - I had a toddler who would stay quiet as long as I had sufficient supplies of raisins, and I found it really frustrating that other toddlers made it impossible to hear (or see, standing on chairs in front of me sometimes) what was going on. I think your school just doesn't trust parents to take out disruptive ones, which is a shame but probably sensible. A crèche is a really good option, if you can get it organised. Or a dress rehearsal for all, and a later 'adults only' performance.

For any babies under 3 you'd need a ratio of 1:3 carers in a creche. It would probably be unworkable with any newborns especially if BF, and any toddlers (I'm looking at you, DD) who won't be looked after by randoms.

As for the "get a babysitter", if only. We have a babysitter. It took us about 5 interviews to find anyone that a) turned up for an interview and b) turned up for a first booked babysitting session and c) turned up regularly when we book her (and d that the DCs like).

Posted too soon. The solution is:
a) have more than one performance of whatever it is (and multiple times for meetings) so that some of them can be child-free (officially if you wish, though BF babies may still need to go with their mum and the mum may not be able to make a daytime session if their toddler isn't sufficiently controllable - hard to run after them if attached to newborn I imagine).
b) suggest that disruptive younger children are taken out and
c) enforce that, as well as enforcing no Ipad filming (or really any filming at all).

We did have one half-day intro to Phonics session for Reception parents which had no creche provided and no children allowed. I was working anyway and can read up about phonics on MN, so didn't go.

We also had one Harvest assembly where parents were invited, toddlers also went (it was EYFS so Nursery were in it too), and everyone was happy, no screaming or disruption.

Everything else has multiple times and in some cases a creche, but as far as I can see no obligation to use it.

Not everyone who has small children are considerate. My Dc are only in reception and i have lost count of the number of things (plays, parents information meetings, screening of films the kids are done themselves, phonics meetings etc) that i have not heard half of or missed my kids singing/saying their part because someone thinks it's cute when their toddler runs around or shouts things. It's bloody fucking annoying!!!
I have missed lots of things because I have no family who live near me to mind kids. That is also annoying but at least i'm not the twat with the toddler watching peppa pig on full pelt at the back of the hall during the christmas sing along.

Not all toddlers attending these performances are 'screaming little brats' as someone put it. Some of them will be well behaved and not cause any interruption. If we are to ban everyone with the potential to make noise and cause disruption shall we exclude anyone with a cough and cold, anyone with SN who may make an involuntary noise, any grandparents who might think they are whispering but are actually shouting??

They all have the potential to be screaming little brats, let's be honest!

Can't abide people insisting that their precious angel snowflake could absolutely be trusted to behave immaculately... newflash, s/he can't! That's the nature of babies/toddlers!!

I am so glad our school performances weren't ruined by such parents.

Any sensible school would run two performances - one where younger siblings were welcome and one in the evening where people came without children and there was a more focused atmosphere. YANBU. And it's technically illegal to ban bf mothers from bringing their babies along if they need to be fed.

Personally speaking I would ask for the policy to be adapted in the light of the above, and refuse to attend events, meetings or donate to the school until they did so.

YANBU. I've only experienced the "younger siblings welcome" type of school, and noise/disturbance has never been a problem at all. It's also a nice way to make them feel already welcome and part of the school by the time they join reception later.

And it's technically illegal to ban bf mothers from bringing their babies along if they need to be fed.

And we're back to this. Once again for those who may not have known (or who are too bullheaded to acknowledge it, or who are mathanxiety),

It is illegal to prevent a mother from breastfeeding her child anywhere the child is allowed to go. It is not illegal to ban children/babies from restaurants/clubs/theaters/shows.

Doubtless I am about to be inundated with replies of "well, it's just cruel/unconscionable/sadistic to exclude breastfeeding mothers" well no one is excluding them. They can breastfeed until the cows come home, anywhere they're allowed to take their child. But this thread is about a place they are apparently not allowed to take their child.

And for the record I think it's just as cruel/unconscionable/sadistic to insist that your right to not find childcare trumps every other parent's right to hear their child perform unhindered by the wailing/babbling/chattering/running about of your special snowflake DC who, according to you, is wise and well behaved beyond their years, understands the gravity of the situation, and won't make a peep until told otherwise. This assertion is ludicrous. Your toddlers and babies are toddlers and babies, and they will do exactly as toddlers and babies do.

I'm torn really. On the one hand I think it's unfair for older siblings not to have their parents there. On the other, I've sat through hour long things and not heard a single word, let alone my dc reading or whatever.

For plays our school does two performances which works well. But there are loads of other situations where it isn't feasible to do this.

It relies really on people being considerate. Which most are, it's the few that aren't that spoil it.

It relies really on people being considerate. Which most are, it's the few that aren't that spoil it.

Exactly. And it's those few that has policy makers in places such as these schools tearing their hair out and saying "well, relying on them to act responsibly isn't working. We're going to have to ban the wee ones all together." Because I highly doubt there are a bunch of teachers sitting in the staff room going "tee hee hee how can we inconvenience those pesky parents today tee hee hee".

So the people who ARE playing the game lose out. But don't blame the policy makers - they're only doing the best they can with an untenable situation not of their making.

The people who have made the situation untenable are the parents who have ruined countless performances and events by refusing to do the right thing. If people are going to be angry and indignant, perhaps they should try being indignant at the people who are actually to blame for these sorts of rules.

For every considerate mum like you OP, there are sadly many others who let their wailing toddlers ruin many a school play, Nativity etc. I was at one once when at the start they asked all parents to be considerate and if their child was being noisy to take them to the library when they were streaming the play onto a big telly. The woman in front of me smirked and loudly whispered to her pal "she can f*ck right off, I aint going nowhere" and her noisy (albeit very cute) toddler proceeded to shout, scream, cry and generally cause havoc for the whole 20 minutes.

I don't understand how needing to take a toddler to a school performance means you are labelled a precious mum who thinks their children are special little snowflakes.

A one size fits all approach of banning all younger siblings clearly isn't the solution, surely it's not unreasonable to ask schools to come up with a compromise such as allowing these children to attend the dress rehearsal etc. Our school won't even offer this so I feel I'm justified in thinking this is unreasonable?

It isn't a lack of consideration that's the problem, it doesn't matter if parent takes disruptive child out, the damage has already been done.
Child in performance saying a line when child in audience shouts out. Yes, parent takes them out, but the poor child has been shouted over, their lines not heard and family members miss the child's lines completely.
It's tough, we all have to make concessions for our children.
I would love to record my dd as she does some wonderful concerts whether it's a school, theatre, or Cathedral there's a blanket refusal to allow filming or photo's of any description.

I know of schools that do 2 performances of nativity/plays-1 for those with young children and 1 for adults only

these are nativity plays not Broadway

Well, quite. Professional actors won't be distracted or reduced to tears by a toddler shouting out that they can see the Baby Jesus, but a 5 year old shepherd might be.

Our school allows a limited number of parents with under 5's to come and see the dress rehearsal for the christmas show. No siblings at the actual performances. I agree it makes life difficult, but I think there are lots of valid reasons why they aren't permitted at parents evening, assemblies etc.

Unfortunately it's the few that spoil it for others. When my DC were young, either DH or I would stay at home with baby/toddler and the other would go to the meeting. There was no need for us both to be there. However, we would see whole families, 2 parents, 5 kids turning up. The children left to play/run around while the parents got cosy for a good long chat.

I asked my children (one confident, one shy) how they felt about having babies in the audience. They both thought that it would be really sad if little brothers and sisters couldn't come, and even more so if the parents had to stay at home to look after them. I asked about the noises disturbing them, and they looked at me as if I was crazy and said that they hadn't ever noticed. And I asked them about toddlers wriggling and wandering around, and DD said 'Do you mean like that time when Tom was getting a head teacher's award in assembly and his little brother and sister were so excited that they went up in front of the headteacher as well? It was so cute! They were adorable! That never happens when we do a play, though. But it would be really sweet if it did!'.

DS (the shy one) doesn't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to objecting to disruption in the nativity play, because he threw up all over his Wise Man robes just before going on stage last year. Crying babies would have caused far less disruption.

Generally parents who let their children scream, run around, etc without taking them out, and either parents who don't care about anyone else, or people who think their toddler running around or trying to get on to the stage is cute. That is why it doesn't work.