Aibu about boyfriends appearance ?

[WhosDavid]

I joined to post this because it's not something i feel I can bring up in real life without sounding like a bitch .
The background is I've been with my boyfriend for almost two years now , we're both in our late twenties . I've been married and divorced and have kids , he hasn't had a relationship since high school and still lives with his parents . He's pretty great , but doesn't really live in the real world when it comes to bills and how people in general behave . His biggest flaw is that he's quite immature but seeing as he's had no real reason to need to act like an adult I let him get on with it . He does have a full time job . He is amazing with my kids and they really adore him .
The problem is , and I really dislike myself for even thinking it , he looks like a tramp all the time . I'm talking tshirts ripped wide open,dirty clothes , he does a dirty physical job and will wear the same thing to work then again at the weekend . I've stopped asking him to join me and the kids at soft play because when he takes his shoes off he's wearing socks that all five toes are sticking out of . I'm not exaggerating. We've gone to spend nights in nice hotels and he's turned up wearing suit pants , trainers and ripped dirty tshirts. He has a suit that I've seen him wear for weddings and christenings (with his work boots)and he thinks he looks great and that I should credit him for making the effort but the white shirt has yellow stains around the collar and cuffs , he is totally oblivious. He will admit himself that he hasn't bought new clothes since being a teenager . Even his dressing gown is threadbare with holes in . I've tried to subtly buy him tshirts , jeans , even shoes and he says he loves them but they go to his mums never to be seen again . I really enjoy being with him and think he's amazing apart from this . But it's starting to get me down , I never want to go anywhere with him anymore . I should add , I've never been particularly shallow and don't care what his dress sense is , so long as things are clean ,unholy and match . Aibu in feeling like this ? And if I'm not , can someone please help me broach the subject without making him feel bad?

He definitely has the money . He is very generous when it comes to paying for things or buying gifts etc . He has a full time job on a decent wage and lives with his parents who don't charge board so all he has to pay for is his car.
I think there has been occasions where he has tried and kind of seeks recognition for the fact that he's wearing a full suit when the occasion calls for it ,and I'd be happy to give that recognition if his shirt wasn't yellow around the collar and cuffs with stains on and if he wasn't wearing his work boots with it .
I do love him and I do know that in the grand scheme of things this isn't a massively important issue , but it's important to me :(

OP, I was very scruffy and unkempt when I met my now DH, and I'm forever grateful that he was patient but firm in criticising my clothes and (lack of) grooming back then.

My attitude came from my very scruffy, never replace anything family, and I just didn't register stains/ rips/ scruffiness in the way most people would.

I think the key is to be clear, firm, and direct, making it clear you are criticising his t shirt not him. So I remember trying to wear very scruffy clothes to a smart event one day and my dh saying clearly that they were scruffy and nobody else would be dressed that way, and I should wear X instead, as it fitted properly and matched. I railed against it as I couldn't see the issue, he calmly said he wouldn't go until I got changed. Once I'd got changed we had a lovely evening and I was glad I'd listened, and surprised at how comfortable I felt wearing 'normal' clothes.

Don't be vague or drop hints. Say why he can't wear a particular item and what he should wear instead.

Absolutely I've changed now, and I cringe thinking of how scruffy I was.

I think he mayl be resistant to change as he still lives in his parents' scruffy house though. In a childhood bedroom. It doesn't bode well for him wanting to grow and change.

Changing your familiar comforting ways is difficult. He needs to want to change.

Please do NOT let this man move in with you!

You don't have someone move in expecting that you (or they) will change who they are or how they live. You have someone move in because you are compatible and have like life-styles.

If he really loves you hell come back and then you can have another go at explaining what the bare minimum you expect is - clean,washed and non holey/stained. Don't pussy foot around him,be kind but be firm.

I think he shows I incredible lack of respect for you and others. I don't think he is going to change.

I think this is fixable. I think there are some big misunderstandings here - you seem to assume that it's a motivation issue for him, and also that addressing it would undermine him. But it might be more about a massive knowledge gap on his part - he may get not know where to start. And he might not want you to dress him. Start a simple conversation 'how do you feel about people dressing smartly? Do you think you have a style? Would you like to dress differently? If not, why not?' That kind of thing. You might find an easier way to talk about this and reach more of a compromise - that you accept that this isn't ever going to be anything he cares much about, but he accepts that you dictate certain levels of acceptable dress (and give him lots of guidance) for social situations.

I don't think you should feel embarrassed for how you feel. I do think it's wrong to judge someone on an appearance element that they can't control, but this is something he CAN control, easily. And it's not just appearance but hygiene - I wouldn't want to sleep with someone wearing dirty, sweaty clothes.

I get what others are saying, that this is the only problem in an otherwise great relationship... but it's going to snowball once you're living together. I don't think you'll change him and I think you'll get more and more unhappy with him.

As xmas is coming up. How about a voucher for a clothes shop....aand you go with him. If you can afford it of course

I think now is the time to own up, by saying things like 'let's go into town and go shopping for clothes' you are being indirect and he's getting insulted, but you really need to say 'I love you, but going outside with someone with holey and stained clothes is embarrassing. I don't believe you can't help it, everyone else on the planet helps it, but if you need my help I'm happy to get you some clothes and make suggestions. I'm not happy to go out with you again for dinner or in public with those clothes on, sorry.'

You are pussyfooting round the issue, I'd be blunt as nothing will change with all this hinting, and he clearly has no social shame (giant holes in socks at soft play with long toenails is horrible).

So the hope that he was just very unaware of his appearance doesn't appear to be the case. I love Mumsnet because of the diversity of posters and marvel at stories of strong responses to sort out similar situations. I'm not like that, hence my squirrelling. You don't sound like that either, so you need to find a solution that works for you. You are really worrying about his feelings, which is lovely, but judging by his response last night, he's not even remotely considering your feelings. He must have recognised that you were gently trying to broach a delicate subject and he reacted childishly. So subtle isn't going to resolve this. He's hinted at moving in. I agree with pps that you shouldn't allow this unless this is resolved for you.

I think he needs to realise how important this is for you and that your future together is in jeopardy because of his intransigence.
I would write him a letter with loads of positives, especially about how great he is with your kids, but tell him clearly what he's risking by continuing with this behaviour. Offer to help him, but make sure he's clear how resolved you are.
He can read and digest the letter in private. You will feel heard, without the awkwardness of broaching it in person. I do feel he must be very embarrassed.

I agree with writing a letter.

I like the idea of a letter . I also liked the idea from one poster to say to him that he should wear whatever he wants to work , but have seperate evening and weekend clothes if we're going out . That way I can get him a few bits in at a time without having to spend a fortune all at once , and I think tbh having a whole new wardbrobe at once would probably get his back up a bit . So maybe once I've talked to him , if I buy him say two outfits and a pair of shoes ? Then just keep adding to it ?

It's interesting that he says "I can't help it." Do you think he means that he really is just hopeless with clothes and knowing what is acceptable? I can imagine that someone might feel embarrassed to try in those circumstances because they don't want to get it wrong ... I agree that the dirty, holey thing is awful, but if he's been brought up to think that it is somehow "morally superior" to not worry about material things, then it might be hard for him to break away from it.

I agree with a pp that hinting at things and suggesting that you go shopping together is a bit insulting to him; he sounds like an intelligent person so tell him honestly how you feel (maybe also mention that your family have commented). Putting it in a letter/email is also a good idea as it will give him time to digest it all.

Stick to your guns - this will not get better on its own and will start to annoy you more and more as the years go by. Good luck!!

My skin is crawling.

The issue I have with this is that he has stated that he knows that you think he dresses like shit.
But then you buy him jeans and tops and he still doesn't wear them.
That's just weird.

I just couldn't!

I don't mind scruffy but I don't like an unwashed look if ykwim? Definitely not dirty clothes and toes through socks just sound ridiculous!

But OP has been passive and indirect. Do you need any bits..are you SURE... feels like needling.

To me, him saying angrily "I know you think I dress like shit but I can't help it":suggests there's lots of guilt and shame being implied. He may well be responding to a sense that she is judging him or disapproves of him. So his being narked is more about the emotive insinuation that there's something he should be ashamed of.

I think you should be very clear, rational, literal, unemotional. Which should be an easy-to-understand language for the child of scientists!

"Your clothes overall are all too old and dirty to be neutral. Instead of being in the background, because it doesn't matter, your clothes are making a big, shouting statement. You want to be neutral but your clothes are not having the effect you think they are. You look so different, you attract attention and not in a good way. This t shirt here smells and is ripped. These tracksuit bottoms have holes and stains.

Do you want me to help you choose a simple new wardrobe you can wear every day? Then you won't need to think about your clothes - which you say is your aim.

If you don't do this, I'm afraid I...."

What? You'll leave? or what? Think about your course of action if he won't do it.

He may genuinely be worried about finding the right stuff in shops etc but you need to be very clear that if there is any future in the relationship he has to be willing to change.

My dh was a bit like this, not as extreme, but he has over the years accepted the many new items I've bought him, been on shopping trips with me and now knows that if we're going out to meet others, his outfit has to be vetted by me. Hasn't changed as such, but understands that if we are meeting (my) friends or family he's not allowed to look (too) scruffy.

Eggyface , I've never ever tried to make him feel guilty or ashamed :( . I very rarely make any comment on his clothing (I give him other compliments ) and only ever really say anything negative in a jokey way for example once. 'Look at the state of your socks!' and I'd only even said that because I'd already bought him new socks that he never wears .
I've bought him things before but never actually had a conversation about , I'd hate to make him feel ashamed . As I've said a few times , I've followed him into posh hotels wearing suit pants with a holey tshirt and trainers without saying anything . I really have tried to not make it into an issue

OP what are his family like? Do they all dress similarly? Could you perhaps speak to his parents?

Hubby will happily wear holey socks but the rules now are if I spot a hole they go to sock heaven at bedtime!! I will also surreptitiously throw out any T-shirts etc that start to go holey. He however buys his own replacements, except socks as its now become a running joke that I kill all his favourites.
Agree with others, you really need to be direct. It also can't make you feel special that he won't make an effort to shower and put clean clothes on to go out somewhere nice.

What is his general self esteem and self respect like?

I really think the way to go is to get him to differentiate between work clothes and shoes and the rest of the time clothes and shoes. To be honest, if it had been me in the hotel and he's ready to go for dinner dressed like that, I would have been like 'eh, those are work clothes and you're not at work. Where's your other clothes?' and then maybe it wouldn't be such a huge issue to tackle further down the line.

I don't get his mindset. He must be really extreme because i can't think of a person I have ever met in my whole life that would wear unclean and ripped and holey clothes.

I don't mind a bit scruffy but if he is wearing socks with his toes literally poking out, they are not even fit for purpose.

Op what I don't understand is how you can be attracted to him when you say his clothes are not even clean.

He obviously gets a kick out of this. He surely knows this is not acceptable in any social circle. It's a game of which he is the master. What is so attractive about someone who activity chooses to be dirty and unkempt?

You've never tried to make him feel guilty or ashamed, but by not speaking out honestly about how you feel your "hinting" has had the same effect.
Be completely open and direct now - I think it's the only way.

Please don't tell him he's a messy bugger...

He just needs clear direction. 'I want to go out with you tonight, and I want you to wear trousers and a shirt with no holes in.'
When he shows his holey socks 'those need to go in the bin. Wear your new ones next time.'
My husband is a bit like this though not practical or rugged so the clothes are old and worn out rather than torn.

He sounds lovely- this is a training issue, he's a bit eccentric and needs specific instructions.