To seriously wonder what it will take for the Left to realise hurling insults at their core voters won't win votes?

[basketoffreshveg]

guardian link

Now, I realise the above is about Trump, but if I didn't have to get ready for work I am sure I could find easily enough any number of articles from the last twelve months stating that core Labour voters are too stupid to know what is good for them, wrong, misguided, naive, foolish and poor judges of political and economical climates.

I keep thinking that at any key moment the light will go on and the penny will drop and the left will realise and identify this is the very problem and why they aren't being elected.

They aren't losing because of stupid voters but largely because these voters dislike being called stupid. I am not necessarily advocating a U turn insofar as policies go but in the way they are presented to the electorate.

Yet after every crushing blow I see articles like the one above and I have to reach the conclusion that there is a serious disconnect here as if I can identify the source of the problem and Labour/left seemingly cannot, and I am no genius, I truly can't see them ever getting back in.

Bitofacow

Thanks. Yep, endorsement by KKK I knew about, but seemed a cause for concern rather than proof of racism. And I don't think the policies I cited were actually racist, even though they weren't nice.

But your first two points/quotations, absolutely. Undeniably racist, to the point where you'd think even most racists wouldn't voice those thoughts outside their innermost circle.

I voted leave and I am not white I am working class but have my own home and have worked with disavanted family's all my life

I don't care much for the left always wanting to victimise and "rescue" those less well off while in the same breath telling us how fucking stupid we are and that we don't deserve the vote with even only votes for people with degrees mentioned after brexit

"I see the lefts champagin socialism and it makes me ill tbh

Oh yes no grammer edcation for the you the. Proles but I will place my children in private or grammers

Telling us the proles how awsome immragtion has been for us while installing themselves in the whitest parts of London

And trying to conceive us that people who are trying to get the long term unemployed are our enemy
When the reailty is those who would keep us on welfare as a bribe to vote for them are the enemy

And I dare say uncontrolled Immigration will not seem a issue when you can afford to opt out of the local school and place your child in tiffin like seaums miles and you can afford to opt out of the NHS

the left think they are saving us poor folk for themselves thanks kindly but I don't want your bloody help
Your Inabilty to step into the centre ground will lead Europe to a far right hell

I predict that France will vote in the NF le penn when you have delivered 3 for 3 after the French elections I hope you will all be very pleased with your work after all political purity rather than compermise and center ground

As a black person I will never forgive the left for this

Thefishewife

Powerfully made point.

"And I dare say uncontrolled Immigration will not seem a issue when you can afford to opt out of the local school"

See this is the issue. Thefishwife undoubtedly does not see herself as racist. Her assumption is that immigration is bad for education. However, many immigrant communities excell in the education system and raise standards in local schools. So by implying immigrants lower educational standards is she being racist?

By pointing this out am I being patronising? I am after all white and she is not.

Thefishwife taking lots of aspects and attempting to create a Web doesn't create cause and effect.

I am also non white council estate kid but one that only progressed through grammer schools etc

Think about this tho take a look at the home counties they don't vote left in any way. Never have never will. Loads of ex london it's seeking a 'better' life for their kids

I have to ask you as some called coon and nignog walking to school in the 70s and 80s why is everything the lefts fault? what f the right is taking advantage of the economic downturn?

In the 90s I thought we went too far allowing schools to have urdu names. Refusing to challenge 'cultural' practises. Going far to far on equal everything to the point of eroding women's rights. Yes that was an ssue.

But come on look at the wider issues re capitalism...the 1% has increased wealth in the last 10 years. This ain't caused by the proper left and will continue with the right. And the left haven't been in power in the UK for some time. I terms of our political enviroment obama wasn't really left

It's not about immigrants impacting on edcation in terms of learning

It's about you have x amount of schools with c amount of places you bring more people into a area and then some are left with out places or left having to attend a school across town Ect

You have fundermnatlly missed my points

It's a question for me of infuscture the left are always bemoaning the cuts and how everything is dire you can't get to see the doctors not enough teachers police but allowing more and more people in the uk is seemingly not a issue

When I cater for a party I invite the the amount of people I can comftabley host

If you can cater for 30 people you don't invite 70 it's basic maths

We either have to increase our public services or lower our immragtion

I also think it deflates wages but the left often don't care why would you keep our young on a road to welfare while inviting others to come a work in costa coffee and wash cars

The left cry the famers fruit wil go rotten with out unskilled labour well I point to the amount of young we have out of work as say there are your unskilled work force

Also if you don't want their help...what will you do? It seems you don't want to actually do anything for yourself just blame every one else

You should be a contributer to your own society. This is the crux to me. Too many people bleating about what is 'done' to them. Rather than thinking about what they can do for others

Theres no shame in fruit picking ...have done so myself. Maybe you should try it

there are no fruit picking jobs for British people Showmeagain, these kind of jobs are now all done by new immigrants.
I am not a racist before anyone starts.

Fishewife your arguments are impressive and put simply.
Few will listen though. There is a carrying capacity in any population for a given area.
In our area they are trying to build 250 new homes. But no schools nor doctors surgery with this. 32 kids in classes and the teachers off sick with stress. This is pure madness.

poster Showmeagain Sat 12-Nov-16 22:30:43

I have been called those names myself

It's not all the lefts fault but the seek with one hand to help the working class and with the other hand patronise them

I don't what the far lefts help of sympathy just the same things they enjoy

Like grammer schools

poster Showmeagain Sat 12-Nov-16 22:35:38

I fostered for 7 years
Adopted twice and volunteer for age concern

Done plenty for others thanks

Thefishwife undoubtedly does not see herself as racist. Her assumption is that immigration is bad for education. However, many immigrant communities excell in the education system and raise standards in local schools. So by implying immigrants lower educational standards is she being racist?

If her reasons were that immigrants are less intelligent and therefore lower standards, that would be racist. And it would ignore the evidence that certain immigrant communities consistently outperform white peers in education.

But can't you think of other reasons why she might feel that immigration has caused problems in the education system?

The big problem with immigration isn't the overall numbers so much as the concentration in certain areas. Where I currently live, we would benefit from more immigrants, not least to fill vacancies in the areas which are mainly staffed by immigrants. Where my closest friend lives, English-born children are in a minority in the classroom, and the influx of immigrants from one particular country was so swift and big that it's put a strain on resources due to sheer numbers (vastly oversubscribed services) and due to specific problems (e.g. Language problems in the classroom).

I use to enjoy teaching in ethnically diverse classrooms. I could cope well with one child in the class at a time who spoke little English, and it was only ever one because children learn quickly when surrounded by a new language.

I'm certain I couldn't teach as effectively if 20/25 children didn't speak English fluently. I'm not racist. I'm not even anti-immigration, although I'd love to see measures increasing integration, to avoid all white and all non-white areas. But I can't deny the problems that immigration has caused in certain pockets of the country.

Now I don't know Fishwife, so I can't promise she's not racist. But I think that it's a bit perverse and cynical to read her post and assume racism rather than an honest description of the problems in the area in which she lives.

Bull. Try contacting a farmer and find out. Oh and btw when my family picked there was no minimum wage. No health and safety nowt. And all cash in hand. It's never been a bloody career

Using that as an illustration of immigrants taking our jobs is crass. It's ok tho cos when the benefits are withdrawn we can go back to the 70s and won and their kids will be on the farms picking again....at leaSt they won't be them there immigrants will they tho

Women and their kids

Nowt wrong with immegarion if controlled

In my area we have a housing list that is 10 years long but like Jeremy corbyn said he's happy with the levels of immragtion Mia even like some more

Wonder if those people who have been waiting 10 years for a home agree

fishwife what has that got to do with the price of fish?

Also hate to point this out but if you are non white at some point your family where immigrants. I am guessing perhaps one generation ago

" Bull. Try contacting a farmer and find out "

no it is not 'bull'. All of this work is done by agencies who only employ non British. Trust me I have contacted them looking for work and they are not interested.

If when your family was doing it , it was all cash in hand and no H and S then with the greatest respect it was obviously a long time ago and therefore I postulate that you no longer know what you are talking about.

I am for immigration but anti free movement. The left are anti big businesses screwing the workforce and yet uncontrolled immigration is loved by big business because they can screw the workforce as much as the want. My DP works in haulage, wages are stagnant, in house training of road crew to driver has ceased and new arrivals do not join the unions. In ten years time, if not sooner countries will be screaming in anger how we have stole their youth. If we truly cared we would be investing in east and south Europe and not stealing their talent.

poster ElizabethHoney Sat 12-Nov-16 22:43:45

Exactly

Can't raise any concern about immragtion with being a paid up member of the UKIP

poster Showmeagain Sat 12-Nov-16 22:47:27
Also hate to point this out but if you are non white at some point your family where immigrants. I am guessing perhaps one generation ago

So because I am non white my family could only been here for one generation who is generalising now non whites have been in the uk since Roman times

Bull....Yes they do take non immigrants. I know farmers. My pout was also that the view re immigrants is retrograde. Also I don't see anyone queuing do...do you?
Get a freaking grip

And fishwife if you bothered to read previous posts I said how things had gone too far. You can get angry about those who have I a bad way to protect you. Wait til the 70s are back. You mat have more understanding

fishwife errmm really it's hard to probe that far back. Humour me. As you haven't responded I am still waiting g

no you get a 'freaking grip' .
All of those low paid/seasonal unskilled jobs are now done by immigrants. A British person would not get a look in.
And it doesnt matter how many times you shout 'bull' that is not going to change.