To seriously wonder what it will take for the Left to realise hurling insults at their core voters won't win votes?

[basketoffreshveg]

guardian link

Now, I realise the above is about Trump, but if I didn't have to get ready for work I am sure I could find easily enough any number of articles from the last twelve months stating that core Labour voters are too stupid to know what is good for them, wrong, misguided, naive, foolish and poor judges of political and economical climates.

I keep thinking that at any key moment the light will go on and the penny will drop and the left will realise and identify this is the very problem and why they aren't being elected.

They aren't losing because of stupid voters but largely because these voters dislike being called stupid. I am not necessarily advocating a U turn insofar as policies go but in the way they are presented to the electorate.

Yet after every crushing blow I see articles like the one above and I have to reach the conclusion that there is a serious disconnect here as if I can identify the source of the problem and Labour/left seemingly cannot, and I am no genius, I truly can't see them ever getting back in.

I think some people are trying way too hard to be victims. It must be exhausting.

In the real world, the last 6 months has seen a rise in racism, sexism and disablism. Some people have challenged that. Get over it. If you haven't been part of that then it isn't about you. Please stop trying to silence and vilify the left though.

Auit I too did a lot of research - right back to Coudenhove-Kalergi, and I voted Leave. It is always better to be in charge of your own life (country).

SlARTI "In the real world, the last 6 months has seen a rise in racism, sexism"

You are right. It appears that Sweden is done for, and we will see at NY whether Cologne is repeated. Germany continues to have rapes and sexual assaults. Bad times.

I think some people are trying way too hard to be victims. It must be exhausting. In the real world, the last 6 months has seen a rise in racism, sexism and disablism. Some people have challenged that. Get over it. If you haven't been part of that then it isn't about you. Please stop trying to silence and vilify the left though.

Maybe I've missed people trying to silence and vilify then left (although I'd count myself as left-wing), but maybe you're describing some of the objections made on this thread to sweeping negative generalisations about right-wingers, Trump voters and Brexiters.

It's possible to be fighting against racism, sexism and disablism, and also object to the characterisation of large swathes of the population as racists sexist and disablist, based on votes which were not principally, and far from being solely about those problems.

If you want to stop unacceptable behaviour, then it's worth remembering that wrongly accusing huge numbers of people of that behaviour won't help your cause, and simply discredits you.

This needs another posting

That is indeed a superb video, and absolutely nails it.

But hardly requiring tears from you, surely.
Ah I have Aspergers.
High emotional empathy is common for many female Aspies. The hurt and pain of others for me is very tangible. I have to be careful what I watch.

Marmaduke LOL!!!

That is fucking awesome, Who is that guy!!!

It's Jonathan Pie. He dioes a whole host of 3 min vids on YouTube.

Wish I were a billionaire so I could get that video shown on prime time tv.

I think some people are trying way too hard to be victims. It must be exhausting

In the real world, the last 6 months has seen a rise in racism, sexism and disablism. Some people have challenged that. Get over it. If you haven't been part of that then it isn't about you. Please stop trying to silence and vilify the left

I wonder if there is a misunderstanding by some on this thread. The OP and I think many other posters, including me, are on the left. People are complaining about vilification of some on the left (people who have traditionally supported the Labour party for example) by others on the left.

If you haven't been part of that then it isn't about you. This is just wrong. If someone on the left, let's take Polly Toynbee as an example, is likening all leave voters to white supremasists (as in the article I linked to) then the fact that I am not a white supremasist and not a racist does not mean it is not about me. This type of slur is being aimed at some on the left by others to avoid having to listen to and address their concerns. How is this not the concern of the people being denigrated?

It's not just a matter of an insult, it is the whole mindset that goes with it and the attitude that certain people should not be listened to.

The Jonathon Pie rant is superb.

PrettyBotanicals, I wish you'd posted on the thread rather than PM'ing me.

It wasn't a potential derail or anything that needed to be private.

I'm only ON this thread for the open political discussion among a variety of strangers. Trying to make it a private one-to-one conversation rather beggars the purpose.

I'm not too well today and can't write much anyway. So it's not just more appropriate, but you'll get a better response from more people, by posting on the thread.

Wish I were a billionaire so I could get that video shown on prime time tv.

Or just use those billions to run for President!

If you haven't been part of that then it isn't about you.

God, what a cop-out.

There's a tweet going round, with more than 5k retweets, which says: "let's put avocado on racism so that white people look at it."

Is this really how we fight this? With more racism?

Here it is... 37k retweets now!

It's not just a matter of an insult, it is the whole mindset that goes with it and the attitude that certain people should not be listened to.

In a nutshell.

Auit - very interesting. I also did real research - although not as much as you did. And I voted to leave. I speak 2 European languages and have lived in two EU countries and worked in 11 of them - (I think - quick count..).

And ElizabethHoney - same. I volunteer but have caring responsibilities so am on a low income and also did loads of research.

Irks to be told I didn't think about my vote.

If you want to stop unacceptable behaviour, then it's worth remembering that wrongly accusing huge numbers of people of that behaviour won't help your cause, and simply discredits you.

I haven't wrongly accused anyone of anything, so I have no need to stop. The whole raison d'etre of this thread was to make sweeping generalisations about the left so forgive me if I don't take your victimhood seriously or your claim to be left wing while simultaneously attacking people just for being left wing. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Slarti it's OK to make sweeping generalisations about the left. But wicked and mean to even imply any Brexit voter may possibly have been even the tiniest bit racist.

In areas that are over concentrated it is our government that have failed them. No investment in schools, social housing etc. So what did they do? They voted us out of the EU and any checks and balances and gave all the power to a right wing Tory government who won't tell us what Brexit means

Its interesting the way this statement is posed, through - this - Tory government when in actual fact all these things suffered massively under the the Labour government.
I would love to know where the people live with the wonderful hospital investment by labour because my local hospitals are dire and were under labour. ( they are getting better now)

I know because I was due to give birth in them and there was a woeful shortage of MW too. I know because I wrote a letter to my MP about it, headlines were full of hideous tales, people I spoke too, etc etc.

I am a swing voter but I seem to find myself constantly pointing out such un truths.

Winter just to confirm - you really believe that the NHS is better funded now than it was under the last Labour government??

Slarti

1. I think the "you" in the sentence you quote is the generic you, not you yourself.

1. You seem to think you are the arbiter of who is "genuinely left wing. None of us on this thread actually know each other so I'm not sure how useful it is for you to give your opinion on who is really* left wing or not.

1. Can I ask you three quick questions?

Do you agree that some commentators on the left say that all leave voters are stupid and/or racist?

Do you believe that all leave voters are stupid and/or racist?

Do you believe that any left wing people voted leave?

But wicked and mean to even imply any Brexit voter may possibly have been even the tiniest bit racist

I really don't think anyone, anywhere has said this. Can you not see the difference between saying any leave voter might be racist and all leave voters are racist?