To get fed up of my DP going to ExWs house regularly because of kids?

[Sunflowerspread]

I've been with my DP 5 years - and mostly good but for one niggle - he's always going to ExWs house because of their kids!

He takes his two daughters to Uni every morning - they live at their mum's - so he goes around every morning. Fair enough.

When their mum goes away they sometimes come to ours, they are very welcome, one used to live with us. But more and more they don't want to, and so DP goes to their house to see them and check they are OK. If they want their computer sorting, or a lift. Again, DP goes to theirs, they are often not ready, so he gets asked to go in, he does.

I do get that he needs a relationship. I do get that they are living at their mums. But why does it always have to be there?

I've tried to entice them to ours for the weekend, taken them out for dinners, all so that they can have some Dad time in his own house, or just him and them. His ExW has been starting to ask him more and more favours which involve him going to her house. They have a half sister now, who they hardly ever see because of this new 'norm'.

I'm just getting a bit fed up, but if I don't want to say anything directly as DP will just feel like I want to stop him seeing his daughters. Which I don't. I just wish it were more at our house!

Sunflower this will not work, if you break it has to be a clean one, not him staying in the house when he has nowhere to go. I think long term you will need to find your own accomodation and start fresh. With him about, its easy to go back to the way it was. Make sure she puts your dd on the deeds of the house and in your will.

Make he puts your dd I meant.

I totally agree with icy, you need to have that security for your dd and make sure he does that.

I think it is time you started researching all your entitlements, sunflower. How much child support you would be entitled to, tax credits and whatever support you might be entitled to as your dd's carer. You might also think about moving back closer to your family and friends, so that you are not too isolated.

Some good ideas for next steps there Atenco.

I totally agree with Atenco, you need to start thinking practically, and life on your own.

I fully agree with previous posts.

My reading of the situation is that if he was prepared to change his stance he would have done so already.

He'd be contacting you to try and work things through with a real understanding of the problems and the changes he was committed to making.

The fact that he hasn't would suggest that:

A) he's accepted you will separate and is probably making his own plans

B) he's hoping to find a way to still maintain the status quo by stealth

His suggestion of moving back in suggests the latter.

I think you need to see a solicitor and find out how best to protect your daughter and what you are entitled to in terms of support payments and also benefits as a lone parent with a SN child (i.e. as a sole carer).

As per previous posts I'd serious consider moving closer to friends and family. You can't rely on support from him, so you need think about what works for you.

Good luck

One of my main feelings about my DP is that he has for a long time put our relationship firmly in the 'half way house' category. Yet with his first marriage he was ridiculously over the top committed.

That's an interesting comparison, although I'm sorry you're having to make it. A man ten years out of a marriage and five years into a new relationship, but STILL not wanting to get divorced... it makes me wonder if this to him is just a really open marriage with he and his wife both having outside partners. I know there were comments early on in the thread about this being almost an other woman dynamic.

Atenco's suggestions are really good ones. Your and dd's security are the important thing.

Thanks posters. I do agree Atenco, Aero and Eat - I think it is going to be incredibly difficult to make this a clean break. Thinking about the posts on motivation, he is not movitated to just reduce a few lifts a week, which is a little crazy, however he is motivated to still be with me in a half relationship.

He is very adamant that we have to 'talk' about arrangements and 'talk' about the house etc and for me to 'ask to talk when I'm calm'. Yet asked directly about whether he understood why it was important to have a couple of mornings specifically just us - the words he used were very strong - that he 'would not be subservient to my demands and proclamations'. So for me, there is no reason to talk at all.

I don't want to seem strange comparing with marriage, but it is remarkable how different these relationships are. Like he thinks that it is totally different in a second relationship. This is true partially, but he is treating them as if they are running parallel. However, I have a long term Ex and I am certain he would not want me to be having a close relationship.

rumbles it does feel like an other woman type dynamic. I feel that he is 'pulled' in another direction from us regularly. That he thinks this is his idea is just beyond me. Step daughters needn't feel like a 'pull away' from our family unit surely? It all feels completely wrong.

Last year for example, the DDs both came away with us on at short break - all my idea btw. I thought it might be good. DP spent the whole time just utterly grateful that they'd come. DD3 was almost totally ignored. DD1 attached herself to DP the whole time so that even the odd snatched conversation between me and DP got cut short. I felt like a spare part.

Your short break sounded awful! And once again there YOU were trying to effect better relationships with literally no backup from him. He really is a sap (sorry, apologies). He just can't see how there's 2 of that three particularly who are constantly manipulating him and making him jump to their tune.

'would not be subservient to my demands and proclamations'

Yep, soon as you hit the mark out comes the 'only talk to me when you're calm' or 'you're being unreasonable' or 'you're mentally unhinged' etc and so forth. I guess that's when we know we've hit the nail on the head with whatever it was we were discussing at the precise moment!! (I only just thought of that! - Thank you for the opportunity for another lightbulb moment - they're all valuable).

Seems quite happy to be subservient to 3 other people's demands though doesn't he. Crazy, crazy.

The holiday was depressing! . It was some months after DD1 had got cross with me and moved into her Mums, so I was trying to warm relationships a bit. It didn't work at all really. Looking back now, I can see that it was skewed. DP could have been grateful that I'd organised it, rather than that the DDs deined to come along! I don't think he thanked me at all.

Oh and I really had thought I'd got a lovely man this time! I thought I'd learned from my past mistakes. And to be fair, he is lovely to a lot of people, ExW, DDs, his friends love him. Although tellingly, his siblings think that he is quite remote.

You put so much thoughtful effort in - with his support I'm sure you could have developed things into a good step family situation. It certainly wasn't for any lack of trying on your part (quite the opposite).

And you kept up effort even though you had your own DD - any normal person would have been so so grateful to have that kind of commitment and it's very sad that he's so blinkered he can't see the incredible person he has standing by his side because it's not replicated in many relationships, and if it is, it often disappears once their 'own' child comes along.

Weirdly, he's doing the opposite of what many dad's do when they get with someone new and have a child with them! You should be on here posting "AIBU that DP won't maintain contact with his previous children" but you're getting the complete opposite.

He ticks the box for bucking trends that's for sure. I don't find it funny, but it is bloomin' peculiar.

Yes my father married again and totally favours his second family. It seems a lot of men do, although like my Dad it seemed they bonded the second time and became 'hands on'. When we were growing up we hardly saw him.

Polly you've really helped me. I've been doubting myself a lot, and feeling a bit down, and I've been a bit cheered by your and others posts.

Especially as it is just before Christmas and DP has totally written off my concern as something horrible and bitter.

If I've helped in any way then thank God my experiences have been worth something positive!

Neither horrible nor bitter Sunflower - not words I'd use to describe you or any aspect of what you've done or how you've conducted yourself.

Anyway, he knows full well you're not actually horrible or bitter, it's just a 2-for-1 deflecting tactic to a. make you doubt yourself and b. take the heat off himself when you strike home with a particularly pertinent observation.

I was thinking last night about the frustration of dealing with this type of person and thinking specifically of my XH. He and his family cannot see that they have damaged my DD over a good number of years (all sorts of low level but ultimately psyche damaging stuff over the years that's chipped away at her) - they cannot correlate any of that damage, acknowledge it, understand it, accept culpability for any of it - not one jot. Not one of them. For her sake I had tried 4 years ago to set out what things they'd been doing and how it had hurt her and predicting that if it carried on she wouldn't want to see them any more. And I did that foolishness even though I had been married to this utter chump for 16 YEARS and should have known it would make no flipping difference whatsoever! I mean, how stupid can you get? And even now a good 5 years on I have to continually take several deep breaths, step back and ask myself - if I mention this issue/point, will it make any difference? The answer is always No and to me it feels incredibly apathetic to do nothing, say nothing. But there is no alternative other than you wind yourself up and stress yourself out. As they say in Frozen, you have to 'let it go' because you just can't win, you cannot effect change.

Interestingly, when she did in fact stop 95% of her contact they gaslighted her would you believe a 14 yo child! They said if she doesn't want to see us, she needs counselling. Not counselling to help and support her - but because they were labelling her as mental! It was nothing to do with them apparently, the only possible explanation must be that she is nuts. I admit it, I confess, I did respond and suggest that they enrol in family delusion therapy themselves.... (they didn't, obviously) .

And I mention all this not to hijack your thread OP, but to illustrate to anyone currently dealing with someone like this who reads the thread and thinks "Ah, no, I am the one that can get through to this man," or "Oh my situation's different" - you won't be able to and it isn't different. This is a type. And they may be packaged slightly differently and the issues may be different but the intractable nature of their thinking is the same for all of them. How hard you try, how differently you frame it, which tactics you employ to get your message across - none of them will work.

Just keep your course just as you are because you are right to want an end to a situation which is completely untenable, you've given more than enough time for change even before your recent more overt attempts to get the message home and what you're doing is absolutely right and correct.

You know people say to me (like it's a good thing) "Oh, when the kids get older they'll realise he's a total failure as a father". Firstly, that's never a good thing to realise and secondly, no he won't. And when I say that to them you can see the confusion in their eyes - they (luckily) have not come across someone like this and cannot imagine that people like this even exist who wouldn't be regretful, ashamed and horrified at their treatment of their children and that it had damaged them - they simply cannot imagine it. Until people like us realised we were getting nowhere (which in every case I know of where it's a first timer coming across one of these people, that accounts for years of time). They are an intractable force of twisted self-belief and self-image that won't/can't be changed. And I think it's can't rather than won't because you can't work with can't, you can't effect change in can't; you could potentially turn around someone in the won't category or they eventually have an epiphany and make the change themselves usually after catastrophic relationship failures.

I hope so much that you and DD will have a good Christmas despite all this stuff going on. Stay strong and keep going with the steps you feel are important and the pace and content that you feel you need to address.

Yes Sunflower, my dad did the same thing, closer to us than he was to his previous family. My mum wasent the OW, tgere was none, they just drifted apart 15 years before he met my mum and was divorced before he met my mum. My sister used to stir things up between my mum and dad and try to come between them. You have tried, tgere is nothing you can do, the massive problem is, that your partner does not see any issue, and lays the blame on you! Whilst he is in that mindset there is nothing you can do. He isent being a supportive partner, it seems as though it is you and dd against them all, you are fighting a lonely and loosing battle. Tge best thing is to call it a day, and try and get the best for your dd out of him, so that she is financially looked after by her dad, as she is disabled, she will need it more, she will probably need long term care and support, that is what has to be your primary concern here.

I did actually drag him to counselling after my initial post. We had a few sessions together and he started his own. The therapist said that DP was very evasive. He wouldn't say he wanted to commit to me. We described briefly our family and step family set up, without even saying there were any problems, and she immediately said 'There are 3 people in this relationship then'. We got to talk about a couple of the things that he felt were wrong in our relationship - however the therapist had to work on him for 3 sessions to name even one thing. It was about his DD1 and yet when we talked he admitted it was unfair of him to blame me for certain things. He then completely retracted what he'd said. So it was like trying to grapple with thin air.

Although at these sessions, DP did admit that at a team workshop at his work, the facilitator and him had a chat, and that he thought DP might be emotionally distant and this may be partly due to having an alcoholic father, and an emotionally cold mother. However these are his issues to deal with, and I don't see any real change.

Pollly - all sorts of low level but ultimately psyche damaging stuff over the years that's chipped away at her. I'm so sorry about your daughter. It is very strange how what is obvious to you, is not obvious at all to your ExH. It has certainly been obvious to your daughter. EVEN when there is a big result - ie your daughter not seeing them.

The 'low level' I can identify with. I was thinking about how I thought my conversation with DP had gone well last month, with me thinking that he had got quite a few points and we could then try and compromise a little. Work as a team. Yet I remember he still said 'But I don't know why you are reacting so over the top about such small matters'. Today I was thinking, it seems the same over this 'one mornings lift for DD'. It seems small, but actually this IS the MAIN issue in our relationship. The main one.

Even if your ExH and my DP could not understand why. Even if they had no ability to see if from my or your daughters point of view. The things that they are being asked to change ARE small aren't they? They wouldn't cost them anything? For my DP it would actually save time for him, promote his DDs independence.

So that is another strange thing, even if they couldn't see why. Then why not stop them anyway knowing that there is a BIG affect, which will adversely affect them? Especially as I'm sure your daughter is reasonable, I am reasonable. Why is it so important to them to hang on to these behaviours, to the extent that they will label your daughter as having mental health problems instead of small changes? Your ExH even had the benefit of you in his life and as a co parent, giving him really good advice.

I just don't get it.

Thanks aeroflot - I'm sorry that your Mum and you had that battle going in with your sister in the background. Must have been very wearing over time. There is only so much conflict and bad feeling that relationships can take.

I do need to make sure DD is taken care of, and most of the care is with me as I've become a bit of a self taught teacher for her, which seems to be really helping. Which does mean that I need to be financially support for way longer than me or DP ever expected that I'd be. I also need to keep sane too. It's tricky as part of DPs thing is looking always like the good man, but not necessarily being good.

For example, he'd happily look after DD3 while I've gone away for weekends - mostly because he refuses to come with me anywhere. I haven't done many, however he'll spend the whole weekend either again going back and forth for DDs and not doing the stuff that is important day to day for DDs progress.

He just likes to 'leave it to me' even though I've tried to teach him. Before she was diagnosed he used to say that DD1 could look after her too, but she really couldn't. She had no insight and would not listen to any of my instructions. I used to get flack for that. However now DD3 is diagnosed and I am not 'oversensitive crazy woman' - it is acknowledged that she needs quite responsible care. Above the normal.

So I need DP to back me up - financially really - so that I can be free to do this.

Yes it was hard, even when sister was at a distance, and my dad did not do half of the things your partner does for his dds. Sunflower wow that is quite telling from the therapist, and her comment about him not being committed to you is quite significant, he has a whole raft of issues going on which are impacting on you and your dd. At the moment he is not able to see that, he might never.

Really I think the therapist has confirmed to you, what in your mind you already know. The best thing now is to focus on dd, and getting the best financial outcome from him to help support her, as you can. Arrange a visit to the solicitor and drag him along, so that your dd can be put on his will, and that she has a steak in one of his properties, and an agreed maintence for her.

Now I think you have to think of your life now as a single mother, and look for what benefits you are entitled to, and into your housing situation. Can I ask what your disability your dd has?

You're actually very right Sunflower. They are small things - if they're about stepping up and saying hey don't say that to my DD, that's wrong - it's hardly going to put a kink in their life for the entire future is it!! I suppose ultimately that's the really daft thing about it - it's SO incredibly damaging but would so so easy to change.

It's really interesting to hear what you say about him going to counselling and being evasive and you said he retracted what she'd finally been able to get out of him. It's so interesting because XH did quite the same thing. He wasn't evasive but we did all the counselling, thought we'd got to a decent place, and then about a year later he said he hadn't bought all that she'd said anyhow. You can't win can you!

Yes, you need to move things on in terms of housing and financial security utilising all the various possibilities on offer whether it be tax credits, housing benefit, child benefit, any other benefit going - spousal maintenance, child maintenance - if he can't provide emotionally then he's got to provide in all the other ways that matter at the very least.

Your in a good position, he is letting you live in the house, so take that time to secure housing for yourself, for benefits you are entitled to, and securing financially from him your dd security.

OP re: your post @14.39

I think this is why you need to seriously consider moving to be closer to family.

You will need support and I don't think he will provide it.

Playing Driving Miss Daisy with your DD isn't parenting her.

I will wonder if he is actually scared of parenting your DD? This would make all the non essential lifts make sense. He can still claim to be a "good parent" to DD1/2 whilst not "overtly" being seen not to engage with DD3 and address her needs.

He seems to value his good guy image so highly that maybe he's just unable to concede that root cause of of this is his inability to engage with your DD's SN's. So instead he quite literally drives away from it - with the excuse that he's being a good father - when in fact he knows deep down he's not.

Ergo this HAS to be about you and over reacting because the truth isn't something he'd admit without being dragged over hot coals.

You mentioned the lifts weren't the norm when DD1 was at school. Does the timing correlate with DD's needs becoming evident and her diagnosis?

I may be way off beam here - but maybe worth consideration.

Aeroflot Yes I tried to get hold of a solicitor recommended to me this week, but they are booked up (Christmas stress probably!) - so I'm trying to find one as it would be good to see one first thing in the New Year. DD is severely autistic and has a physical issue that is not yet firmly diagnosed.

At the counseling, he did eventually say that he was committed to me, however it was very frustrating that he evaded it. Why? What was the point in introducing another insecurity when the whole point was to make us more solid and secure.

Polly When DD1 moved out I was totally shocked by how far and extreme the reactions were to me, from both DP and DD1. Even though what I asked of her (not to be rude) were very small, in all the years she's lived there. And now, for me to go in one morning without older DDs. These are very small things again. You can hardly say that DP giving lifts for 4 days instead of 5 is a fundamental affront to his continued relationship with them. Yet he'd lose me and partly DD3 over it.

It only makes sense if DP sees this as a fundamental affront and a big enough deal to throw away someone that I know he values on some level. That is what is difficult to get my head around.