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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To get fed up of my DP going to ExWs house regularly because of kids?

630 replies

Sunflowerspread · 10/11/2016 22:51

I've been with my DP 5 years - and mostly good but for one niggle - he's always going to ExWs house because of their kids!

He takes his two daughters to Uni every morning - they live at their mum's - so he goes around every morning. Fair enough.

When their mum goes away they sometimes come to ours, they are very welcome, one used to live with us. But more and more they don't want to, and so DP goes to their house to see them and check they are OK. If they want their computer sorting, or a lift. Again, DP goes to theirs, they are often not ready, so he gets asked to go in, he does.

I do get that he needs a relationship. I do get that they are living at their mums. But why does it always have to be there?

I've tried to entice them to ours for the weekend, taken them out for dinners, all so that they can have some Dad time in his own house, or just him and them. His ExW has been starting to ask him more and more favours which involve him going to her house. They have a half sister now, who they hardly ever see because of this new 'norm'.

I'm just getting a bit fed up, but if I don't want to say anything directly as DP will just feel like I want to stop him seeing his daughters. Which I don't. I just wish it were more at our house!

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 18/12/2016 02:05

He might be a pushover where she is concerned but he has no problem bullying you OP.

NinjaKittens · 18/12/2016 03:00

He just sees it quite simply- you knew he had kids and was still involved in their lives when your relationship started/when you moved in/when you started a family together- why did you do any of those things if the set up was a problem?

To his mind, you knew what the deal was. And to him, it looks like you now want to change things that everyone else is quite happy with, even though you knew what the status quo was before you got involved.

He thought that by entering into and progressing the relationship you accepted the status quo. Why would you get involved/move in/get pregnant if you weren't fine with things- it would be stupid to him to do any of those things based on how things might be rather than how they are/were. Now he is puzzled why you want to change it.

He just thought negotiations were up front. He might also think that you should have been upfront/honest with him at the start whether his continued involvement with his first family was a deal-breaker/problem for you. Now he thinks you are welshing on the deal/you've suckered him into a situation he wouldn't have agreed to had he clearly known what your expectations are.

It,would always be hard for you to combat that mindset/renegotiate the deal,without resorting to shock tactics and ultimatums. He might just be puzzled why you ever thought he was prepared to give them up/back off from them- after all he let you see from the start how things were.

It's as simple as take it or leave it.

Atenco · 18/12/2016 03:36

He might also think that you should have been upfront/honest with him at the start whether his continued involvement with his first family was a deal-breaker/problem for you

Well if the relationship with the first family is that set in stone it's a wonder he's not still reading them bedtime stories and changing their nappies.

OP seems to have been perfectly fine with his attention to his dds when they were of an age to require that type of attention.

NinjaKittens · 18/12/2016 03:39

Really Atenco Tenko Tenko

Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 08:46

I agree Helena, it sounds like he's gaskighting you. Causing you to doubt yourself and second guess. Why does he not bully his ex wife in the same way then! He can be strong where he wants to, seems like he wants to have his cake and eat it!

Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 09:08

Ask him when he is going to put you and dd at the top of his priorities, when his dd are 29, 30,40, when. He does so little for you now, even that depends on his dds. It is not acceptable he lets his dds treat you like crap. Why is he not pulling them up on it. Letting them totally disrespect you. He has very little respect for you.

QuitMoaning · 18/12/2016 09:20

My OH pretty much spends most of his free time with his son (aged 15). And spends Christmas morning with his ex family.

Our working hours mean we only have Wednesday evening, about 1 in 3 Saturday evenings and Sunday evenings together. His son plays sport on a Sunday so my OH spends every Sunday taking him, watching him etc and then we meet up around 5pm for dinner.

I find it incredibly frustrating especially as my son has now started Uni, BUT... it is not forever. He has to be there for his son or he is not the man I want. i don't want to be with someone who doesn't believe that (most of the time) children come first.

PNGirl · 18/12/2016 09:25

Well, Quit, we are at the "it's not forever" stage. But it is apparently. Both girls are adults. This particular "D"P will be driving them to work at 25 and going round in the middle of his free time to change their lightbulbs.

PNGirl · 18/12/2016 09:25

And if children come first, why doesn't his third daughter get a look-in?!

Butterymuffin · 18/12/2016 11:08

Oh Sunflower. I can see why you feel wretched as you're still asking for very modest things and he has still refused even to give those. I think you're right and he's wrong about being 'eaten up with bitterness' - to carry on the way you are, feeling resentful about accepting crumbs, will build tremendous bitterness. Drawing a line and saying 'ok, he doesn't want things to change, so I am going to move on alone and make the best life I can for myself and my daughter and not expect him to be a significant part of that' - will allow you to escape the bitternessbecause you won't be waiting around on him. You and your lovely DD deserve so much better.

I'd also say that he is not doing his older daughters any favours in the long run. DD1 demanding lifts and saying 'you'll make me late' when she's overslept shows a terrible lackof responsibility and maturity, and he's enabled this. Students like this do not get the best graduate jobs, and when they do get jobs they don't look good to their employers.

I think Eat's summary of the problem is good. I think it could be taken further, to 'He ignores our young daughter because he prefers to do the easier job of driving his adult daughters around'. He can't say he doesn't, because if he preferred being with your daughter, why hasn't he been there?

I'm sure this feels very 'so here I am, having to be strong and do it all myself, this sucks'. It's unfair. But settling for so little is even more unfair. Things will get better. Very best wishes to you Flowers

Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 11:25

Totally agree with Buttery, she's nailed it, when they leave uni, he will be driving them to work, fixing their heater, painting their lounge, still you and dd will be at the bottom. This housing situation, I feel this is not ermanent, at some point he will ant you to move out, especially if you meet someone new.

Sunflowerspread · 18/12/2016 11:46

To his mind, you knew what the deal was. And to him, it looks like you now want to change things that everyone else is quite happy with, even though you knew what the status quo was before you got involved.

This is why I initially posted. I really did doubt, was I being unreasonable? Surely like any father he wants to do what he can for his children? And now that I am at the point of separating from DP, am I just selfish, bitter and unreasonable? I really have asked myself that, and kind of wonder whether to believe that I am just being petty and awful.

I'll try and reply to the above, to test my own sanity in this -

  • That status quo is fluid, children eventually grow up, do more for themselves and leave home. Unfortunately, this is not happening at all. On top of that, our lovely DD3 may never gain this independence, and yet I ask less of DP for DD3 than his other daughters. This is one of the reasons I am so fearful of the future, we both really can't be stretched to always having three children with childlike needs.
  • I actually took on parenting full-time DD1 for 6 years. 6 years! I did not moan about making her dinner, washing her clothes, looking after her when she was sick. This was extra work for me of course. I did this even with a newborn, and even though she was pretty difficult with me. I did this until she was 18 and then she got angry once when I asked her not to be mean, she moved to her mums, and now refuses to visit. That status quo has changed and it was not my doing, even though it still makes me sad.
  • He never used to pick them up from school, but now they are in Uni DP now picks them up. I didn't get asked about. whether the inevitable coming home later was OK. DP denies that it does make him later.
  • DD3 is a lot of work. Lovely though she is, it's pretty tough. I moved away from my friends and family to move in with DP - and one of the main reasons I did this, was not to disrupt his daughters education. I could have asked him to move nearer to my supports. It was unexpected of course to have a child with special needs, but it does mean that I'm more exhausted, and with no outside support DP is my only one.

I guess what I'm saying is, I have accepted the fact that he has daughters but it has to hinge on me and DP as the core of the family unit. Our or his relationship with them needs to fit around us. Instead DP fits around their lives, leaving me to have to bob around and try and snatch up moments of his time. It feels like a periphery.

So I would say, that his daughters and DP also need to accept DPs decision years ago - which was to build a relationship with me and have a child - that is the new reality, or status quo.

OP posts:
Sunflowerspread · 18/12/2016 11:53

aeroflot and buttery Yes this is absolutely what will happen. It is already happening, with DD2 having a weekend job that DP has been ferrying her back and forth to. This is just never going to end. Ever.

I don't even mind the odd support that he'd want to give adult children, I get that. It's just the continued feeling like I have to fight for the smallest thing for us. That just can't be right can it.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 11:55

Now tgat you have a child and one with profound needs, his priorities are different and he needs to be a father to her, and be there to help you out. Being there 10 mins before she goes to bed is unacceptable and not on. He is not getting this, instead places the blame on you, seeing it as your problem. This isent going to get better, in your heart and mind you know this, and hAve taken the sensible decision to break up.

Sunflowerspread · 18/12/2016 12:17

Buttery thanks your post helps clarify a few things. On the DD1 side, she is the one that even DP and ExW are worried about now. It's a long story, she lived with us full time, I was highlighting these issues for years but ExW told her not to listen to me, and DP had a go at me every time I bought it up. Now that ExW has her full time - she has bought up the exact same issues and suddenly DP talks about them as if they are really caring things to have said... grrrr. And yet they are still enabling her big time. DP really did look at me like I was crazy when I said that she could get herself to Uni if she wanted.

OP posts:
Sunflowerspread · 18/12/2016 12:19

Thanks aeroflot I think that you have been right all along. It feels very hard today. Waking up to the cold reality of my situation. It's horrible really. I feel completely and utterly let down. Sad

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 13:03

It's disgusting that he leaves his young disabled dd and partner, to help two adult children who are spoiled brats, he has the audacity to call you emotional and put the blame on you. I am so angry for you.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 18/12/2016 13:06

The deflections are a bit.... silly... aren't they?

You want things all your own way..... He can't seriously believe that. Isn't he trying to get you to do it all his way? How long have things been all his own way? This sounds like trying to make you feel guilty and selfish so you'll quit asking him to make changes.

You'll be consumed with bitterness - uhm no, that's really unlikely isn't it? Since the conversation being had here is that you aren't prepared to accept a relationship that you're not happy in. The simple choice is whether he is willing to make the changes you need to find this relationship one you want to stay committed to? It's assertive, it's the way grown ups communicate, so it's kind of the opposite of bitterness?

DSDs did not raise themselves, he and ex have encouraged and developed the behaviour in them that meets their needs. So I would think it's likely the ex and your dp have, however gently and subtly, discouraged them from independence or individuating or making the normal steps towards maturity as this would mean ex and dp have to let go and get their needs met in other ways. They certainly aren't motivated/don't want at the moment to build the girls towards being any less needy or demanding. Which is more than a bit sad for those girls.

I don't want to help talk you into leaving your relationship love, that isn't my place or anyone else's. It comes down to what you decide you need to be happy and feel fulfilled by this relationship, and whether he's willing and able to provide this. You have choices here. He needs to get a grip on the idea that you won't be bitter and twisted in a garret somewhere like a Charles Dickens character without him, you'll simply move on as people do, so there isn't any need for the drama on his part. Is he willing to make the situation one you're able to be happy in or not?

NinjaKittens · 18/12/2016 13:14

I'm not saying he's right. But I am saying that that is how he sees it, and it will be nigh on impossible to change that. It's not about whether you are sane/reasonable, or how much you contributed to his first family.

You did all those things, without, to his way of thinking, making it explicit that you wanted corresponding consideration/ in return. So he will refuse to see it like that, as reasonable flux and flow over time, repose to changing circumstances, give and take.

Actions speak louder than words to him, and that is also how you should interpret him. His actions say inflexible, selfish, blind to the needs of others.

I would say his ex and his dd have accepted his decision to have you in his life. But they have probably handled it better, well better in terms of knowing how to get what they need/want from him. They don't give an inch, they don't heed words. They make their position clear and stick to it, come hell or high water.

They do not pay up front with favours and help and expect it to be returned later. And they are spot on with that. This might not be because they are spoilt bitches, but because they know him and are realistic about who he is- they accept him and get on with it.

They have got the measure of him far better than you do. I'm sure they didn't want there to be a second family any more than you want him to be continued to be involved ina first. They had less choice in it than you did, but they have got on with it better. Probably because they had no choice and saw his harshness/selfishness all at once when the family broke up rather than a slow drip feed. Maybe his ex started of like you did, and got to know him over the course of their marriage and has worked out how to handle him the hard way.

And yet again on MN, it's two females/families slinging it out, over a man who hasn't really put the needs of either family first.

To me, it's quite likely that he continues to give his DDs lifts etc because that works for him, not them. It's not them who are spoiled, it is him. He doesn't want to deal with a child with special needs, probably even to face up to the fact of a special needs child and they are a convenient excuse.

It gets him out of the house so he doesn't have to deal with the reality of you daughters needs, or your needs (both of which he sees as demands by the way, not needs- you cope and get it done without him, so to his mind, you don't need his help).

As an aside, there are probably plenty of times that you/your DD has been used as a reason as to why he can't do something for them. It's divide and rule 101, play both ends off against the middle, always have another place to "legitimately" be else to go if things get uncomfortable somewhere.

The following bit is callous. I don't admire this way of thinking, but I suspect it is an element of what features in your husband's decision making. He also maybe figures that if he goes out of his way to help them now, they are more likely to be able to look after/help him in his dotage, more able to than a child with special needs ever will be. So he is investing his time where he is likely to see a return in old age. Your daughter won't be able to help him, and you will either be gone or still caring for your DD, so you're not a smart investment. To him, time with you and your daughter is just a waste, there is no future ROI. It's a harsh and horrible way of thinking, but that is what his actions are saying. Parents are supposed to love their disabled children unstinted these days. It a lot don't, because they are too selfish to do that. It's not a pretty attitude, no-one likes to speak about it now because it is dreadful but it is there. That's why things like nazi eugenics and Spartans leaving sickly abides to die of exposure were ever things. Because some people see illness, weakness and vulnerability and respond not with care but with callousness or even viciousness.

I would stop thinking of his daughters and ex being spoilt/selfish/demanding, and start seeing the true source of that dynamic- him.

Sunflowerspread · 18/12/2016 13:21

That's true rumbling. Anything to do with ExW or his older DDs that I have ever raised, any concerns, is ALWAYS met with a response from DP that I am completely overboard, that I find problems where there are none, and that I am being over emotional.

And yet, when I have tried to bring up any concern in the past, mostly calmly, it is DP who absolutely flies into anger. That really gets to me, that not only do I feel I don't ask for much, as in Friday asking for a lift and not wanting to have DD come along for one morning - but it is DP who gets angry.

I was just exasperated. But it was him that flew into a rage, he upset DD3 actually who he'd shoved into the car 'to get to DD1 on time' and then shoved her out again when I said I'm just not going to do this. He then flounced out of the door telling me 'Don't even try and talk to me'.

It was afterwards, when he still seemed to be in a mood with me - that was when I just thought, no more, and told him we needed to end it. This wasn't just 'a fight'. I didn't even raise my voice.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 13:31

I am glad you have come to tgat realisation. His treatment of dd3 in the car says it all, is that how he sees her. Can I ask what disability she has.

EatsShitAndLeaves · 18/12/2016 13:52

I think you're coming to the realisation OP that it's you who has the right to be angry.

I suspect that for a long time, you have been suppressing your feelings so as to keep the peace.

His behaviour is actually very manipulative. He's wielding his temper like a weapon to keep you compliant and dancing to his tune.

It's a classic case of gas lighting. He's spent years making you think you are unreasonable. So much so that you feel anxious about asking for minor changes in the status quo - changes that still don't represent an appropriate balance of his time and responsibility.

Draw a colander of the week and colour code all the hours as follows:

  1. Sleep - blue
2.work - green
  1. Lifts/favours/waiting for DD1/2/EXW - purple
  2. Time compromised by the above at the weekend meaning you can't do/plan anything due to mid-day hour round trips - red
5.time spent with you and DD3 without interruption - yellow

I expect even you will be surprised at how much of the non work/sleep time is purple and red and that should make YOU angry and HIM ashamed.

EatsShitAndLeaves · 18/12/2016 13:54

Calendar not colander - sigh

Maybe though a metaphor for his argument - full of holes....

Aeroflotgirl · 18/12/2016 14:01

I am shocked, that EXW phoned your dp up at 11:30pm, she has no business phoning him up anyway, and at that time of night, impinging on your time together. Op, there are 5 people in your relationship, you, dp, ExW, and the 2 adult DDs, there will always be for the future. He has no inclination of letting them go. He's got you and your dd in one house, and his EXW and 2 adult dds in another. If I were dating him, I would run a mile in the opposite direction. It seems like he's collecting Ex partners.

I totally agree with with Eatshit, he is manipulative, and gaslighting, I mentioned that previously. He is only wielding his temper at you, and not your ex, to keep you where he wants, and gets angry and upset when you quite understandably want more of his time for you and your dd. We wants you there for him, when he wants, and for you to put up and shut up!

You have to power to change, as this man never will. He does not sound very nice either. Quite abusive tbf!

Pollyanna9 · 18/12/2016 14:40

Absolute 100% gaslighting.

Soon as women step up and say "Mate, this is unacceptable" we're one or more of the following:

Nitpicking
Making a mountain out of a molehill
Over dramatizing something small and insigificant
Over emotional
Mentally unstable.

You have indicated your wish to no longer tolerate his utterly twisted and selfish involvement with what should be his 'previous' family and because he didn't like what he was hearing, because it didn't fit in with the conversations he inevitably has in his own mind which clearly tell him it's quite alright and what a lovely chap he's being, YOU must be the one who's got it wrong, you're being unreasonable, what you mentioned was insignificant etc etc.

You know and all of us on here know that you've got some very serious issues from relationship to financial to you and DDs security - of course, women aren't allowed to be angry. Even though you've every right to be bloody fuming!

Every time he reacts in this way he's giving another middle finger to you and your DDs/family's needs, every time. He's rather make you feel you're slightly loopy for taking offence because it challenges his inappropriate relationship with his ex etc - and clearly from how he's responded, nothing will get in the way of that - he's hellbent on carrying on as he is.

You've got to proceed on that basis, awful as it is having moved to be with him and had a child with him. He really is a total total arse for doing any of that with you when he clearly knew how he intended to proceed thereafter. What a bloody dishonest and underhanded way to carry on from day 1. What were you then Sunflower - an experiment to see if he could break away from EXW?? What was going on in his head at the time?

Ninja makes the most pertinent comment when she lays all the responsibility on your DH. It doesn't matter how selfish and demanding the ex family is or his current family is, if he wasn't an utter idiot with skewed people pleasing tendencies, it wouldn't matter that they were like that! Because his own sense of right and wrong would have him saying "Sorry guys, I'll see you at the weekend and we'll go out but right now, I need to be at home with my wife and DD". But he hasn't got the guts or whatever it is. He IS the problem and the problem is that he really really doesn't want to change.

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