To get fed up of my DP going to ExWs house regularly because of kids?

[Sunflowerspread]

I've been with my DP 5 years - and mostly good but for one niggle - he's always going to ExWs house because of their kids!

He takes his two daughters to Uni every morning - they live at their mum's - so he goes around every morning. Fair enough.

When their mum goes away they sometimes come to ours, they are very welcome, one used to live with us. But more and more they don't want to, and so DP goes to their house to see them and check they are OK. If they want their computer sorting, or a lift. Again, DP goes to theirs, they are often not ready, so he gets asked to go in, he does.

I do get that he needs a relationship. I do get that they are living at their mums. But why does it always have to be there?

I've tried to entice them to ours for the weekend, taken them out for dinners, all so that they can have some Dad time in his own house, or just him and them. His ExW has been starting to ask him more and more favours which involve him going to her house. They have a half sister now, who they hardly ever see because of this new 'norm'.

I'm just getting a bit fed up, but if I don't want to say anything directly as DP will just feel like I want to stop him seeing his daughters. Which I don't. I just wish it were more at our house!

Go to your parents OP.

Just you and your DD. Leave DP with his priorities - which isn't you or your LO.

Sorry to hear your DF is poorly, but that's even more reason to go without DP (should be AP - asshole partner) so you spend time with your family (AP has already demonstrated he isn't "your family") without any atmosphere.

I will definitely go to my parents. It's probably my fathers last Christmas so as to not upset him I'll make an excuse that DP had to work. I'm not spoiling this for them. Or my DD.

She needs a well supported mother too, and I'm just not getting that.

balence I know I haven't even asked for him to stop the lifts, just to cut them down to not EVERY day!

Posting here I realised how much it was affecting us a family, we just don't function. It's not even just the time spent at ExWs or giving lifts - it's all the faff around it - times being changed etc. Like this morning, phone calls - all of which just jarr into the very small amounts of time we have as a family.

Imagine years and years of always coming last. It's not a good thought is it? Time to cut him loose and face a rosy new future where you and dd aren't second best.

Sorry this is all happening before Xmas. The good thing about it is that it won't really have any impact on dd, will it. She's not exactly going to miss what she never had. Better now than when she is older and understands more.

No it's not a good thought.

Sometimes I feel a little bonkers, as my DP genuinely doesn't think he spends little time with DD3. He thinks he is around a lot. He 'just pops in for 5 mins to pick up DD1 and DD2' every day. Genuinely. That's what is so hard. He has no idea he's just on autopilot. He'll never understand why we are breaking up. If he did at least that would make me feel that he acknowledged that I was trying to rectify a problem.

Sadly Sunflower we can review the results of the behaviour trial period that you kindly extended to him and see that he failed this particular test and clearly waiting longer for him to 'get it' would be an exercise in futility. Shame on him but he's obviously in deep with this need to please the wrong people and prioritise the wrong people and it's very very likely he's never going to change - he doesn't seem to have the strength.

This situation is worse than if he'd just gone off with a random woman and cheated on you! What you've got here is near full abandonment in all the ways that matter - time spent, focus, finances and security - yet he's still around in your life - he's around enough to show you on a daily basis that you and your DD do not matter as much as other people who should without question have a significantly lower priority. Every minute he's with them not you - slap in the face. Every time he dashes off to be with them and not you - slap in the face. That's genuinely appalling and such a selfish and callous way to treat the both of you that it takes the breath away.

I'd also imagine that even setting aside this fundamental wrong, just the constant 'background noise' of him always either going there or coming back from there or talking about going there or dashing off last minute to go there or affecting your enjoyment of breakfast by having to rush off there, must really drag you down over time. I'm imagining a quite stressed person (and I'm talking about him here), quite anxious (I could be totally and utterly wrong of course) but I'm imagining that he must constantly be on tenterhooks waiting for the next task he's to be assigned, waiting for one of the three of them to say 'jump' so he can say 'how high'. He must be in a constant state of some level of agitation - and again, that's got to affect the quality of his interactions and his focus when he is deigning to give you some time at your house with your DD. And yet he can't see it's completely wrong and inappropriate.

I hope that you can manage to focus on everything except him over Christmas and make the best of the time with your family. Honestly, isn't delusion a powerful destroyer of relationships and individuals. Sadly, like an addict, you (sometimes) cannot get people like this to see the light. They just don't operate on the same logic and understanding that the rest of us do. Obviously any normal person wouldn't have even started doing what he's doing in the first place but I can say from experience, I ended up married to someone for 16 yrs, together for 20, and I just kept banging my head against a wall to absolutely no benefit and eventually I divorced him - he never EVER got it and post divorce wouldn't have a clue why we spit up. OP I honestly don't think he's EVER going to get it either and whilst after Xmas it will be incredibly difficult to accept that in your mind, ultimately you will be better off and you can start living according to your name Sunflower - face to the sun, bright and happy - because that selfish deluded shit of a man has ground you down and taken full advantage of your incredibly kind and sensitive nature to carry on in a way that isn't just a case of "Oh, crikey I hadn't thought it was such a big deal but now you mention it I am being shockingly unreasonable". No, it's a case of "I'm completely invested in my previous family even though it's based on guilt [or something] I'm deliberately and callously and repeatedly choosing them over you and our DD and I have no intention of changing because in my mind it's completely justified to spend virtually all my time with them not you two".

I'm not even sure if he came back to the house and you and DD were gone, clothes gone, possessions gone - I'm not sure even that would register. You are right, he probably still wouldn't 'get it'. And these are the types of people that you could waste many many years on trying to get them to change - you can't make them, he hasn't responded with any understanding or insight, he's not had a lightbulb moment and he hasn't changed his behaviour. Surely one would have expected him to be devastated the first time you mentioned it and begging you not to split up with him and instantly spending 90% of his time with you two but that's not happened.

You deserve SO much more and we are all here to support you whenever you need us because we all genuinely believe that you're the two people who deserve so much of a better life and rapidly formalising a split at a time that suits your requirements (ducks in a row and all that) is looking pretty much inevitable. But ultimately you will be happier in so many ways that you won't even be able to identify yet, even if you are on your own for a while, it will still be better.

Hope you're hanging on in there and best wishes for the very best Christmas that you can have with your DD and your parents .

Great post Polly. OP I think that's a pretty articulate summation of where you are at.

The more time you spend trying to fix someone who doesn't even have a clue what needs to be fixed is just a waste of time.

This must be emotionally exhausting.

Has he put your dd in the will yet?

Just read your whole thread. I'm so sorry love.

The thing is, however stressed he might be or how pressured he feels or how guilty he feels about having left DSD1 and 2, or how afraid he is of losing contact with them... the thing is that everyone makes the choices that meet their needs. They do the things that give them what they most want. They put the energy into the things that get them what they most want. They don't put energy or drive into things they don't want.

The basic facts seem to be:

Your dp is very motivated to initiate and put energy into keeping things as they are.
He is very motivated to get you to co operate with him keeping things as they are.
He is not very motivated to change things (I mean permanently, not just for a few weeks to cheer you up, sliding back to his 'normal') but had a stab at it when you threatened to leave. (see motivated to keep status quo)
He has not been motivated to get divorced even knowing it was important to you - that says a whole lot.
He has not been motivated to put dd's interests first, even to the extent of protecting her in the event of his death.

I think Aero said it a long time back; his ideal outcome for this is that things stay exactly as they have been, but you be happy with it.

I'm getting the impression you're feeling at the end of the road. I am so sorry you're dealing with this, I wish you the very best in figuring out what you want, what you deserve, and the best way forward for you and dd.

And missed a key point there, sorry: somehow all this running around and errands and lifts and what have you is meeting dp's needs somehow. You may never figure out how, but it's meeting his needs so well that he's very resistant to the idea of changing it.

That is one thing you can put to him or maybe look at if you want to consider counselling; what does he get out of this situation that is so necessary to him that he's prepared to lose you and dd rather than give it up? He might realise then and be ready to change it, or it simply might clarify for you whether or not he would be able to do so.

I think it meets his need to be needed, if that makes sense. Utterly spoilt and completely mollycoddled DD1 and DD2 play the helpless daughters who need daddy to do things for them role. Need a lift? Dad to the rescue.

I think you, he and we all know you don't really need him OP. In his mind, their "needs" (which aren't obviously) trump your wants.

Thanks posters. I feel a bit wretched, as I made it clear to DP he'd made his choice, but that I no longer could cope with it, even if he didn't understand it. He just said I'm emotional and we could talk when I was calm. I told him that time was not going to come, I am not calm but I am being clear. He says I just want to have things my way. I'm so disappointed that's even now I'm not taken seriously.

I got him to come, pack a bag and leave today and he's gone.

He is very defensive, I think he loves feeling needed and useful. For them. When I ask him to be home earlier it's not met with quite so much enthusiasm. He absolutely cannot see this.

Not looking forward to making excuses why he's not there for Christmas. A bit shell shocked myself as I know if this Christmas he is not there, as is the case, I know in myself I'll not be able to go back. His last chance was today or yesterday, to fully apologise and totally get that he put me in a crap position. He didn't take it.

I'm sorry love. Do you know where he's gone?

No actually I don't. It's not to his brothers this time. I've no idea where he's gone.

So sorry, OP, but you couldn't go on like that.

I feel it's for the best. He isent taking you or dd seriously, even now wants you to calm down, your acting emotionally. When really you had so much time to think and come to this decision. I understand that you live in his house, so what if he comes and turfs you out! You might need to look for alternate accommodation.

Polly and rumbling. They put the energy into the things that get them what they most want. They don't put energy or drive into things they don't want.

That has made me think a lot. DP makes me question myself, even today he texted to say 'that I must be intensely stressed to catastrophise such a small event' - like I am just reacting hugely and out of proportion - and that 'in no way was he ever going to apologise or contemplate apologizing for bringing one of his daughters with us on a lift'. I guess if you looked at the one incident yesterday, and me breaking up with him today, it might look dramatic. But it's not is it. It's a build up, a pattern. It is every day.

Apparently he has hurried along the divorce and financial side, he went to see a solicitor a few weeks ago. I don't know the outcome or what he is proposing though. It did make me feel more positive. However I've no idea if just DD3 has been added, if I have any more security myself in the house. No idea.

He did agree aeroflot when I last said that we should end it, that the decent thing was to let me stay in the house. No actual written security, but I told him today that I was holding him to his word and he needed to move and let me be, for weeks, months, years if need be.

It is precarious as he could turf you out at anytime, you might need to consult a solicitor. It is the build up, and this constant being at the bottom of the pecking order, it will never be a normal relationship whilst he carries on the way he is doing. Which he sees no problem with and is not prepared to change long term.

Yes thanks, it is a big thing, ending a relationship when we have a sen child, so being told I'm over reacting is hard. It's difficult just keeping hold of the bigger picture. Years more of him daily going to his exes to pick up his daughters. I just can't do it anymore.

I did have one of them live with us for years. I kind of think it's not like either of us didn't put a lot in when they were growing up. It's time for me to just focus on my own family now and put DD first.

I think it meets his need to be needed, if that makes sense. Utterly spoilt and completely mollycoddled DD1 and DD2 play the helpless daughters who need daddy to do things for them role. Need a lift? Dad to the rescue. I think you, he and we all know you don't really need him OP. In his mind, their "needs" (which aren't obviously) trump your wants.

I think this is worth repeating. You appear to don't need him so he gravitates towards those who apparently do.

What does he say when you tell him that lift was just the straw that broke the camels back? That the issue is your lack of family life together, rather than his love and commitment to his other family?

Your are NOT breaking up over one incident though.

He's missing the point entirely here - deliberately minimising the issue to make him seem the innocent party.

Your breaking up because he continually prioritises non-essential daily jobs with his ex-wife and adult daughters, during the week and weekend to the extent he has left you as a lone parent.

I tried to tell him, to be honest I was angry, so it wasn't the calmest of communications. He said it was a small innocuous event. Thats how our last conversation started, when I initially posted her at the start of the thread. I just felt so worn out and angry, and he was saying back then, what are you doing? This isn't a problem, why are you making it a problem? The lifts are 5 minutes on my journey. It's on my way. It's what I want to do. I'm happy to.

But this anger was just still there, and I started thinking, but that's not true. I told him back then, look you come home 3 nights a week 10 minutes before DDs bedtime! You never see her in the morning. You never dress her, get her breakfast. You seem pained to even come at 6.30pm on the 'early' evenings. And yet, you've picked up a daughter... And at the weekends, he said, but if we had something planned of course I would not pick up DDs. But we can never plan or do anything, as he just says, I don't know what I'll be doing... and then it turns out he's got an hour return pick up. But it 'fits in' as we need milk or whatever. Once in town, I'd got the bus with DD3, as an exception I asked if he could give me a lift back - sure, but I had to pick up DD1 at 5 so can't come in until then...

It really tested my belief in myself.

But I keep thinking, and I did tell DP but he totally denied it. I said to him, look, during the week DD3 would see you at least as much, if not more, if we split up!

In fact, now we are breaking up. Can I now expect a lift every morning? Even if I have a car parked outside? And when DD3 is an adult?

Thanks Eats - I am actually going to lift that phrase out and give it to him...

Your breaking up because he continually prioritises non-essential daily jobs with his ex-wife and adult daughters, during the week and weekend to the extent he has left you as a lone parent.

Sorry to rant on, it just occurred to me that he always minimises my concerns. Always. Even though on at least two occasions either he was actually hiding something or at one point DD1 was hiding something too, unbeknown to us.

I'm not saying he's hiding anything. But I don't think his functioning is healthy. Even though it's me he's saying that flies off the handle at unimportant things.

I said last time, when he finally seemed to listen to me (well I thought so until yesterday) - that reducing the going back and forth with older DDs and spending more time to function as a family was important to ME.

Thinking about what you've all said. It just can't be that important to him. He has a massive blind spot. And must get a lot out of it. He is pretty set in his ways, and was married a long time from a young age, and pretty much a dogsbody for all of that time.

I'm just trying to make sense of it for myself. He said I was gong to eat myself up with bitterness.

But the thing is, I think I will IF it carries on as it is. I can't just shut these feelings off. As I do believe it is causing a lot of damage to us. I mean, it shouldn't be this much of a big deal, to throw away a relationship, over not wanting to stop taking your older daughters to Uni even for a day? Surely that is what is not normal? Not me getting upset about that.