What is so wrong with Hillary?

[MarcelineTheVampire]

I know I know, not another one of these threads but I'm struggling to understand why everyone hates her so much.

I know she has been accused of corruption but nothing has stuck and it doesn't seem to be any worse than her male counterparts- is it because she's a woman?

AIBU to ask you to point me to some facts as to what she has done to be so hated? I'm genuinely interested.

The fact is the USA didn't want the Clintons back in the White House. They wanted an end to dynastic politics. It's not that she was a woman- she was the wrong woman.

This is the better explanation.

Keep in mind, Trump didn't beat one woman. He beat 11 men and two women (the rest in the primary). Sexism only explains two of them.

The anti-establishment argument has further evidence in Jeb Bush. He was a successful governor of Florida (a swing state), is far more impressive and articulate than his president brother, and speaks fluent spanish (his wife has mexican roots. important given how republicans struggle to get the hispanic vote). He also was beaten by Trump.

Anti-establishment sentiment explains most of the those victories. Sexism doesn't.

They wanted an end to dynastic politics

This I think has a lot to do with it.

A vote for Clinton for some was a vote for 'more of the same'

Trump doesn't have any sexual assault cases hanging over him. Claims were made during the election and they have all gone away. It was published that HCs campaign paid for their lawyers.

As for health insurance, as a business owner who continues to pay for our employees, charging no more than 5% of their annual gross income for their family, our costs have increased by about $300k which is a 4x increase. Personally we pay about $50k a year in medical premiums and copay's. Those earning more than $200k are expected to pay these sums. In the NyC area $200k a year is not a high income. People on that income are struggling to make it and are delaying saving for their retirement.

HC is just not liked. It's nothing to do with her being a woman. Had Elizabeth warren been on the ticket we would have had our first female president.

Whilst I think it was probably more because she didn't have the trust of the electorate her sex undoubtedly was in play.

A woman with 5 children by 3 exes, a history of adultery, sexual assault charges hanging over them would never and I mean NEVER have even got into the candidacy race.

The Clinton Foundation and 'pay to play' would have been enough for me to never consider voting for her, regardless of her sex.

*Whilst I'm not entirely happy that Trump has blown the Democrats out of the water, I'm relieved to be spared being lectured by the equivalent of Hodge, Hewitt, and Harperson rolled into one self-aggrandising woman.

I'd also rather hear the sound of fingernails screeching across a blackboard than listen to her foghorn voice.

Imo she's an odious woman for whom obscurity is long overdue*

Wow. Misogyny is alive and well and living on MN.

Rorty Exactly. People are sick and tired of pay to play politics. The Clinton foundation and accepting money from the king of morocco and Saudi while she was SoS is what I think did her in. We had an MP in the UK who did the same thing and went to jail. Remember Neil Hamilton? HC is lucky she isn't in jail. At no point did she openly declare these donations. As SoS she should have.

Thhis is nothing to do with misogyny but all about a lack of integrity and ethics.

Wow. Misogyny is alive and well and living on MN.

How is what you quoted misogynist? Which part of it is specific to a woman and not something someone would say about a man? 'Self aggrandising, odious, foghorn voice, lectured' - none of these are insults specifically aimed at women. They have just been derogatory about a person.Just because that person happens to be a woman doesn't make it 'misogynist'

Unless you are saying that no one is allowed to say insulting things about her because she is a woman. Which is just as stupid as misogyny tbh.

Every single one of Michelle's election speeches shat all over Hillary's. You knew that Michelle genuinely cared about keeping Trump out because she genuinely believe that would be best for America and she actually seems to give a fuck about the lives of ordinary American people.

All Hillary ever seemed to care about was getting into the White House to complete her power trip. I never ever have had the impression that she genuinely cares about American people. And she was relying on the 'lesser of two evils' thing to get her there.

Here's John Pilger's view on Hillary newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/

I just wish Sanders had been against Trump

Voting for a woman just because she was a woman worked out terribly well with Margaret Thatcher didn't it?

Gerda Worked out terribly well with Julia Gillard in Australia too...

John Pilger post-election:

I don't think Hillary lost because she is a woman at all.

She lost because she's a politician and people are sick of politicians.
She's also not at all likeable or believable.

If she was a man saying exactly the same things, with the same history, she would have still lost.
People want change.

Hillary's policy flips

All the points about political dynasties, anti-establishment sentiment, white poor voters feeling left behind, are all correct but there is also the personality of the two major parties.

There is a saying that Republicans fall in line (meaning that regardless of misgivings, they will vote for their party at the end of the day) while Democrats fall in love. They need a candidate they are enthusiastic about that they can really get behind in order to go out and vote. And no one was that enthusiastic for Hillary. The Republicans didn't really get many more votes than they have in previous elections. The numbers were about the same. But Hillary lost millions of votes that had previously gone to Obama. While some of these votes did go to Trump, the vast majority of those people either voted for a third party or didn't vote at all.

Unfortunately for all of us there was a rival for Hillary that did inspire the same kind of fervor as Trump did and could have competed with him. But due to the DNC basically selecting Hillary for the nomination no one else really had a chance. I feel far more disappointed in my own party for their shenanigans than any of the voters.

Bernie would have been trashed for his pacifist views.
"He thinks money grows on trees" line about his plan for no college tuition.
I'm not saying those are fair criticisms, but they wouldn't have resonated.
Saunders didn't stir up hate. :(

I don't see why the DNC should be blamed for Trump winning when the whole of the Republican party couldn't stop DT, either. A lot of people are calling it a hostile take over of GOP. Hawkish on trade & liberal on spending, no religious philosophy: very different from GOP's official platform.

I too am not clear on why HC was so disliked. This is because I'm not so knowledgeable on politics full stop. I only know that there was dislike. However, for every acvusation, allegation levelled at her, one could also point to other work she has done throughout her career to advocate for the rights of minority groups (huge generalisation I know). But could one say the same of DT? I also wondered if Bernie Sanders had been in play, might he have appealed to working disenfranchised classes?

Pluto The Pilger interview was chilling and made much sense. So many lives lost on the altar of greed. We are all ignorant of what really goes on.

Voting for a woman just because she was a woman worked out terribly well with Margaret Thatcher didn't it?

Did anyone actually do that ?

Trump's blundered into a private party and no one knows what is going to happen next.

Voting for a woman just because she was a woman worked out terribly well with Margaret Thatcher didn't it? Nobody did this. People voted for her because the country was in a mess. The Winter of discontent and all that. I didn't vote for her but I was shocked by a fellow student who said 'Things can't go on as they are'.

Lljkk:
Hawkish on trade & liberal on spending, no religious philosophy: very different from GOP's official platform.

That is the only cause for hope - that he is not really a Republican, which is a charge leveled at him by some sections of the party during the primaries. The GOP establishment really did not want him to win the nomination and imo he is a vengeful individual.