Trump has won 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[jdoe8]

WTF have I woken up to? Everyone is calling it for trump 😭😭😭😭😭

I'm still have trouble sleeping after brexit and now this 😭😭😭😭

FTSE due to open 4% lower on pre trading, well done.

I think it's far more likely that the higher polling for Clinton in the lowest income brackets reflects not youth but black voters, there being a well-documented problem with greater levels of poverty in many non-white communities, and a clear pattern where black voters avoided Trump.

At the end of the day, I keep coming back to one thing. Whatever the provocation, however bad things are for the white working class, it doesn't excuse voting for someone who is verging on fascist in places, and who is without question a racist, sexist, homophobic idiot. For all the liberal middle class hand-wringing over the lot of the poor, and for all the absolute abject awfulness of Hillary as a candidate, there are some moral lines that shouldn't be crossed by any decent person, and voting for a fascist is one of them. At the end of the day, people bear some responsibility for their actions, rich or poor.

For those who voted Trump on median incomes and above, I have no words.

To sum up the above: people have an absolute right to vote for whatever candidate they choose. And the rest of us have an absolute right to have an opinion about their choice.

I think This article explains a lot. Hillary lost it for the Democrats rather than Trump winning it for the Republicans. And - I might have said this before - please stop comparing it to Brexit. There's no going back with Brexit - even if it's a total fuck up - -and let's be honest no one even knows what they've voted for yet. Trump can be kicked out it four years if the electorate - and those too young to vote in this election, but who will,be eligible next time - change their minds.

Quote Holly

"there are some moral lines that shouldn't be crossed by any decent person, and voting for a fascist is one of them. "

Whilst I have no love of facsism I fear you are doing the very thing that got Trump elected. You are telling people how they should think and behave in exactly the same way that working class people were told it was good when globalisation made them redundant.

I think you need to engage in a better debate if you are going to convince the people who have been left behind.

No, I'm not telling anyone anything. I'm saying that, by my moral standards, I judge what they have done as evil.

They are free to disagree and argue for their different morality. The far right in the States rarely has any objection to using moral rhetoric against its opponents. I'm suggesting its time we used their weapons back at them.

Holly - Trump is not a fascist and, by the way, fascism is not reserved for Right wing politics, it can come from anywhere. You may be too young, but do you know of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? That was the equivalent to today's Labour Party, and it was the party that brought Hitler to power.

If Clinton had been voted in, there would be status quo. With Trump USA has a chance of movement to improve that country's lot; we will know in 4 yrs time. At the moment it is being sacrificed on the altars of so much PC garbage, at the expense of people's quality of life.

But having demos in the street about the result is puerile, and shows that some people simply cannot tolerate Democracy just because they disagree with the outcome.

Hmm. Trump has had plenty of TV training. That's how he knew he could get away with what he said. He, literally, had the Trump card - he wasn't "one of them," and knew how to put on a show. Unfortunately for him, he is now "one of them." He can either continue to rabble rouse and cause chaos, mass disappearings, paranoia, fear and confusion, and world unrest. Or he can let everyone down by being a fuckwit.

Towards the end of the campaign, Hillllary made an error by spending an ENORMOUS amount of money - probably $1 million just for Beyonce and the husband - and then we saw the hugging, best of mates routine. Who was that supposed to impress, because it backfired and showed up a pathetic attempt to cosy-up to the African-American vote, who all know that performers are not there for free and that Mr & Mrs Jay-Z are the last people who need an extra buck.

You may be too young, but do you know of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? That was the equivalent to today's Labour Party

50% patronizing, 50% horseshit!

You may be too young, but do you know of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? That was the equivalent to today's Labour Party

And they told me I was condescending

You may be too young, but do you know of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? That was the equivalent to today's Labour Party

I'm currently writing two things. The first is a paper on literature of the concentration camps (Perec and Sebald), the second is a book on politics and care, that speaks a lot about German philosophy of the twentieth century, particularly Heidegger and Arendt. I seem to remember reading something about the National Socialist Party in the course of this research, but I can't.... quite.... place.... it.

I might have said this before - please stop comparing it to Brexit.

Lilian, I beg to differ. Its important (and enjoyable!) to compare and contrast. There are massive difference but they are massive similarities too.

If Trump can't deliver, are people expecting the US will meekly return to its hated elite and the status quo, or seek a more extreme alternative?

Of course you should compare it with Brexit, any political commentator worth their salt would be negligent not to do so.

And Holly, I've enjoyed reading your posts. They are spot on and extremely informative.

The far right in the States rarely has any objection to using moral rhetoric against its opponents. I'm suggesting its time we used their weapons back at them. Absolutely! I can't stand the rhetoric that now the dust has settled let's all join together to work this out. Eh? No, submission is not happening!

You may be too young, but do you know of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? That was the equivalent to today's Labour Party

Ahahahaha.

To sum up the above: people have an absolute right to vote for whatever candidate they choose. And the rest of us have an absolute right to have an opinion about their choice.

The other side of a right is a responsibility and you have a responsibility to express your opinions in an informed, non-inflammatory manner.

I still can't get my head around it

Family and friends in America are split (mainly voted for Hillary) but people I never thought would vote Trump have they are not the white left behind working class or the squeezed middle the are very wealthy immigrants that have lived the American dream

Lots of talk about God. Did Trump use religion to boost his campaign ? (I don't mean his attacking Islam and Muslims).

I'm saying that, by my moral standards, I judge what they have done as evil.

This is the kind of superior hyperbole that makes swathes of the electorate put their fingers in their ears.

There are many countries in this world where truly evil things are perpetrated by the population; there's modern-day slavery, sexism, misogyny on a fatal scale, government-sanctioned racism. I could go on.

I have lived in countries where it's fine to imprison, rape and beat servants and it's not legislated against.

By my moral standards, that's "evil."

I too am very aware of what fascism looks like, thanks Southall, since my grandfather fought against it with every fiber of his being. He was part of the liberating forces that first entered Bergen-Belsen and it affected him deeply for the rest of his life. That is why I am so adamant that Trump is indeed a dangerously divisive man and why I am so vehemently against everything he epitomises. He offers only division and intolerance/ disregard of whole swathes of people (Mexicans, women, Muslims, homosexuals) and holds the accolade of being the KKK's preferred candidate. My grandfather would be turning in his grave at the thought of this man rising to such a position of such supreme power. Trump talks of building walls three decades after we celebrated the unity occasioned by the Berlin Wall being torn down.

You've alluded to what you perceive as people being part of a PC brigade several times. If being PC means a total rejection of the politics of hatred, division and intolerance such as that seen 60 years ago in Germany and currently witnessing somewhat of a revival then I am happy to stand accused of political correctness.

The democracy you speak of is a similar kind that elected Hitler to power with 37% of the vote on a platform of 'improving the country's lot'/ 'taking back control'/ 'making Germany/ Britain/ America great again'. Yes it's what many people want to hear, but that doesn't make it less dangerous - or indeed more trustworthy.

The electorate wait to hear what people on the internet will think of them, and if it's bad, they put their fingers in their ears? Maybe they should listen to what the people they're electing are saying, instead, then.

I've had enough of not being allowed to say stupid, selfish, ignorant people are all of those things. Voting for walls, pussy-grabbing, rape, hate, fear and racism is evil. And utterly fucking stupid. A president elected by people with their fingers in their ears just about fucking sums it up, really.

great post LittleLionMansMummy

Holly:-
"No, I'm not telling anyone anything. I'm saying that, by my moral standards, I judge what they have done as evil. "

I would in return ask, by what authority do you judge? We allow judges in courts of law to sit in judgement because they have studied the law and practiced it for many years before they are allowed to judge, and even they they have to judge by the tenants of the law. If you judge someone, you are effectively saying "I am superior to you". It is exactly that which many people are reacting against.

I may, and often do, disagree with people who have not had the privilege of the education I have enjoyed, but I do not judge their behaviour. OK, I despair of it but still I don't judge.. I would suggest that if you want to stop people voting for the likes of Trump and Farrage you need to listen to them and hear what they are screaming about. How you address what they are upset about is then a more difficult matter but you cannot start until you hear their cry.

PS thank your for your time..

"Did Trump use religion to boost his campaign ? i seem to recall that the catholic church in the us endorsed trump along the lines of 'vote for the candidate who protects the right for life', will try to find a slink.

cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2016/11/09/trump-wins-catholic-vote-election-awoke-religious-feeling/

www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/11/09/president-trump-a-round-up-of-todays-catholic-reaction/

50% patronizing, 50% horseshit!

No, not either. I am considerably older than most of you and that's why I asked.