... to let all you chancers know that there's no MN Secret Santa this year

[BIWI]

Mumsnet is a very different place now, compared to a few years ago, when the lovely Soapy set up the first secret Santa.

It's become a much bigger site, which obviously benefits MNHQ, but it's made a secret Santa untenable.

There have been a lot of rumblings over the last few years from people about whether we want it or not. But ultimately it's become just too big and unmanageable a job for anyone to handle.

So all you chancers who wait until this time each year to post your sob stories no longer need to bother.

I've only skimmed this thread, but I've read enough. BIWI, I am, as always, right behind you in your thoughts and opinion.

Years ago, it was a lovely thing to do and I remember it very fondly. It was well received and you could feel the emotion of some posters thanks coming through their words and equally the givers kindness.

Those days are truely gone I'm afraid, but it was good and anyone who took part, should be very proud of themselves. I've no doubt that we really did make some peoples Christmas.

I'm afraid that these days, unless I really 'know' a poster, I'm very reluctant to get involved with anything more mundane than ,'what's for dinner?' threads now. (ah, the good old days of Strawb in the cupboard under the stairs!)

Don't be down by some of the comments on her BIWI, you are a good person and you know it. Hold that thought and continue doing good for people you know and care about you.

Baffled as to how this thread is mean.

If you are new to MN, you might not realise how many tall tales are posted here, but they are legion and there are no depths some trolls won't stoop to.

There are loads of scammers and last time it ran SS caused loads of ructions with who was nominated, who wasn't, who got stuff, who didn't, who said thanks...not surprised MN are stopping it.

I was going to start a thread about this today, asking if we were going to be doing it this year as I hadn't seen any activity that suggested we would.

I wasn't aware that there have been chancers on here, I may have been taken in by one last year as I sent a very expensive item to someone with a sob story. Although I was very thankful for a gift I received about 4 years ago that although was nothing of much value, I appreciated it so much as I had just spilt up with exdp and had nobody to buy me anything, I was feeling very woe is me, so I suppose it does help some more than others.

I was thinking the same...all these sob stories that appear every year just before christmas.

Navy That's bloody awful. I think I'm probably a bit naive when it comes to things like that. It just wouldn't occur to me that people could behave so appallingly - especially lying about their children's health. I have been taken advantage of in the past, but tried not to let it colour my judgement. I'll just stick to local charities in the future methinks.

'Over the years there have been some awful made up stories on here'

Yes, there have been.

And if you look at the Christmas topic, there are thousands of threads on how to do Christmas on the cheap. Not to mention the Frugal Living section.

And yy, there was a slew of 'I'm going sell my body for 50p in the next hour' threads.

There's already a few on here already

My Christmas gifts cost me £140 for all 3 of my children and we won't be spending more than £80 on the food shop christams comes every year on the same day ffs

BIWI is one of the least mean people on this site and I'm not saying that because we're speshul fwends - we've barely spoken to each other - but she does a hell of a lot running bootcamps etc plus she's a decent sort who has given some incredibly good advice over the years. I'm very upset at the way people are picking her apart for this.

I don't think BIWI is mean. Far from in fact. But I don't think it is just down to scammers that there is no SS. MNHQ already didn't accept nominations for any poster who had been a member less than 6 months. The huge growth in members (fnaar) and things like JefferyGate and Daily Fail using posts has led to a huge amount of name changing. This is not the place it once was and the SS would probably take a year to organise these days. The Xmas chancers have been here for years. It's not a new thing.

all these sob stories that appear every year just before christmas.

This is down to two factors obviously: Not only is Christmas a very difficult, expensive and emotionally painful time to be poor, it is also a time when some people play on the fact that charitable donations recognise this.

This phenomenon is not new. Also not new is the idea that we should penalise and write off anyone asking for help on the basis that they could be lying.

Sadly, it is also not new that people who really need help cannot ask for it because views like the one promoted in this thread encourage people to think that a request for help is probably a scam. Consequently people asking for help are not just turned away, they are shamed and vilified for appearing to be in need at all. They may not be truthful but they are not probably untruthful.

If the OP were to be less bigoted, it would not have read as a direct challenge to anyone starting a thread asking for help. It would have included an acknowledgement that many people are perfectly genuine and the OP was not referring to threads about financial difficulties from such people. Let's not be disingenuous. The OP labelled anyone daring to mention financial difficulties and lumped them in with the 'chancers'.

How lovely.

That's not an inevitable, tragic consequence of scamming. That's a choice that is being made; a choice to wash our hands of anyone 'deserving' (and to deride them in the process)

I'm the first to advocate responsible giving but the tone of this thread and the attitude it engenders towards those asking for help is irresponsible and bullying. You don't have to look far to see the damage caused by this attitude. A woman who asked for advice about managing Christmas (earlier in the week) was subjected to dog's abuse on the grounds that she might have been daring to ask mumsnetters for financial help and she might not be genuine. Any possibility that she was genuine was tossed aside in the general frenzy of bullying bitchiness that followed. She was forced to repeatedly deny that she had accepted offers of help simply to 'prove' that she had not been a scammer in the first place. There is no justification for treating another mother like this at any time, but particularly not at Christmas.

I don't think the OP thought through the implications of her words for people who are genuinely in need. If they are hurt by mumsnetters, it is only partly the fault of scammers. It's also the fault of the people on the threads and let's face it, mumsnet is notoriously fond of getting the boot in.

Also note that MNHQ strongly stated that they did not want that kind of scam-hunter reaction on the threads at all; a report will do.

But it's so much more fun to hunt the scammer, isn't it?

Why bless you slender, this thread has obviously touched a nerve.

Been taken in by a member of the Last Threepenny bit brigade, have you?

Or were you thinking of the lovely hampers you might receive in the SS?

Either way, you're coming across as probably the least charitable MNer I've ever come across. Nasty.

slender Have you missed the irony in your attacks on BIWI when you spoke about those notorious for sticking the boot in?

i missed out on secret santa last year. someone kindly nominated me under my old user name (gingerbreadmanm) but i had left the forum after the security breach because i was going through such a tough time unrelated to finances.

when i came back and found the message it gave me a little glow that in a difficult time in my life some kind person on the internet thought i deserved something special.

to whoever nominated me, thank you

some people have spectacularly shitty years and horrible times without needing to come on MN to pour out their woes.

Those of us who've been here a long time (10yrs myself) do tend to notice a trend, and the "poor me, poor me" threads DO appear at christmas in prep for the SS.. some people are so fucking blatant they might as well post 'give me your money, i is poor innit' in the thread title.

Some of us have managed to get through the most god awful, hellish times in our lives without needing to scrounge from strangers.

Blimey, slender, what are you on and have you any spare?

MN is brilliant for advice. If somebody is in a tight spot, they can get pointers to all the right benefits, charities and people who can help in RL. MN is not the right place to ask for actual cash and gifts.

Well it shouldn't be...

I was looking forward to SS again this year.

In the past, I've been very lucky and had extra help with the odd thing. One particular bad year, I knew no one would be buying me a Christmas present as my DC were small, my XH 'didn't believe' in Christmas didn't want to spend any of his money on anyone but him and I was NC with my family. The school yard mums weren't very friendly ( PTA chair called my DS scum right to his face), in short, I had no one but my 4 DC. I wasn't expecting anything either.
So when the woolies gift card turned up on Christmas Eve, I was in floods of tears.

I've never forgotten the few random acts of kindness and always try to repay them. Where I live now (not in the UK or even Europe) it's hard to make a difference and the Secret Santa was one way I felt I could.

to insist that it's ok to talk indiscriminately about 'scammers' as if it is anyone asking for help

BIWI doesn't need anyone sticking up for her, and PPs have painted an adequate picture of what MN's Secret Santa was. It was, as you'd expect, a very complex logistical task with unexpected glitches: iirc, last year two parcels were mis-delivered and successfully retrieved, one after it had been round the world and divested of its packaging!

BIWI actually got off her well-shaped arse and did this organising.

I notice all her most poisonous critics are newish posters who've never been involved in the Secret Santa (or any of MN'd other 'helping' initiatives, I would bet.) Not even to send a gift, let alone do the grunt work.

So ... what is your point, critics, and why do you know best?

I have been active on mn for the past 5 years, and the ops name does not register at all for me. So I can only take the original post on face value, like many also have to do. It's not a nice post, it comes across like sour grapes and unwelcomimg to people perceived as "new". Especially with the mention of people being bitter.

Also MN is not the only place where scammers are. They are every where, and there are other huge forums. Secret santa, before the advent of MN, has caused upset around the place.

I read BIWI's OP as being directed at chancers and chancers alone, however long they've been on MN.

There have been some shockers of threads over the years - or posters coming onto long running threads in sections like bereavement - where people have prentended to be something, someone and in some situation that is later shown to have been a fantasy. You cannot know who anyone is on here or if what they say is true - and having been posting a long time still doesn't mean that you can trust people.

My account details and password were harvested during the Jeffrey affair. My address and those of some other posters were in my PMs. They were the messages I deleted first when I was told about the hack. Even if SS were running this year, I'd be wary of being involved and having my details sent out.